Being An Educational Agitator, Tribute To His Mom, The Power of Role Models & More with Mike Yates

Ross Purdy Everybody, thank you so much for tuning in to Bear Crawl with dads. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen to us. And as you know, one of the inspirations behind the show in this podcast is really just to learn from dads, to learn from dads that are new in the game with young children or dads that are empty nesters that have kind of been there, done that. And I'm just really leveraging the show to be able to talk to dads and take notes on what I can do to be a better dad to my son. And so with that, I'm very honored to have Mr. Mike Yates on the Bear Crawl podcast.

Mike Yates Mike, thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me.

Ross Purdy Really excited to be here. Absolutely, man. Well, listen, I really appreciate your time. And I know this is a crazy time for a lot of people, especially doing this at night. So I can't thank you enough. So as you know, I was telling you, I work at a school of education. And I've got I think the countdown is two days before our kids, we kick them out for the summer. So I think the name for the podcast is somewhat appropriate because Bear Crawling, I think all the teachers and all the students are Bear Crawling to the finish line just to be done as we wrap up this school year. So Mike, tell us just the audience. Who's Mike? What do you do? Where do you live? And I'm assuming, I hope, that you're a father.

Mike Yates Be on the show. Yeah. Well, that's a great question. Great series of questions. I am Mike. I am a father. And I'm also I've been told I am an agitator when it comes to education, which I don't mind. I like that quite a bit. Good. But yeah, I'm in Texas, in Dallas, Texas. But I'm originally from Houston.

Ross Purdy OK. All right. I want to slam Dallas too hard since you've got some Houston roots.

Mike Yates So yeah, yeah, that's right. I long to be back home in Houston. Like I really have been trying to make my make my move and trying to convince my family that they want to move to Houston too. So I really want to come back. But yeah, I'm in Dallas. So not successful in twisting arms at all? Oh, I have almost succeeded several times. OK. And then they get cold feet and they're like, no, we want to stay here. So yeah, but yeah, we like it. I guess we like the life, the rhythm of life that we get to live. We homeschool our kids. So kids are homeschooled. I work from home. So we're all like here with each other all the time. OK.

Ross Purdy It's really nice. Yeah. Well, how many kids do you have? I have four, four kids. Oh my gosh.

Mike Yates OK, what's the age gap or the range? So yeah, we have oldest is nine, youngest is four. And the exact ages are nine, seven, five, and four. And then they all have summer birthdays, or I guess the oldest three have summer birthdays. So it's about to be nine, eight, six, and four. Good memory. Yeah, it's like it's like a sprint, though. It's like the birthday sprint. Like we've got to get through summer. Well, yes, no money and no energy. So how do you trick the birthday party in that situation? Is it like some place where they can kind of like entertain themselves? You know, we have made a pressure off. My wife, my wife, her name is Alexandria. She is wonderful and is like an amazing mom. And she found and embraced the idea of the golden birthday, which is the golden birthday is the year. Like they turn so that whatever day of the month they're born, like when they turn that year old. So like we have a kid who was born on July 14th. So her golden birthday is when she turns 14. OK, that's the time where we do something big. And most of the time we sort of doubt we downplay. We know we play it chill. They do something fun. We keep it with family. We have we have abandoned birthday parties because it's too much pressure. Yes. Too much stress. Like, yes, it's just too much. So we we have I think we've gotten ourselves to a really good,

Ross Purdy really good rhythm and flow for birthdays, but it's still like. Kind of like a grind to figure it all out. So what do you so for the golden birthday, they're like, so that's it. So it's kind of whatever your child wants to do. Or do you set parameters? Obviously, if they're if they're born on the first, the bar is held pretty low.

Mike Yates Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like our oldest is born on the 30th. Right. Right. All right. Our oldest was born on the third. And so we're like, well, we'll pick a different day for you. But it is where it's where we do the biggest thing that we're probably going to do. I got them. OK. So like. For the one our oldest daughter, who was born on July 14th, she will we will likely go to her name is Brooklyn.

Ross Purdy So we're going to take her to Brooklyn. Is that the inspiration by their name? The city. Yeah, the city. Got you. Yeah, they're all named after cities, actually. All my kids are named after city. It's fascinating. Yeah. OK. Real quickly, though, because I'm going to grab a trail. Why why why the cities? Was there something specific about that city or do we not need to go there?

Mike Yates Since this is being recorded at all? No, no, no. I mean, the story is actually kind of funny. It's we we. So I I I had this I had this. I had this dream when my wife and I were when we were engaged, had this dream that we had two kids and they were named Austin and Brooklyn. And we lived in Austin. Austin, to me, is like it feels like the city where I grew up because we lived there for so long. And it's where I really like staked my career and like like sunk my teeth into education, innovation, stuff like that. And so we made, you know, when we had a child, we named him Austin and we were living in the city of Austin. So that was appropriate. And we were like, OK, if the second one is a girl, then. It's easy. Her name is Brooklyn. And that's what happened. And by the time we had our third, we literally were sitting down and we were like, well. I mean, we can't just name her like Ashley, like the show. But like we were out of city. I'm sure there's an Ashley city somewhere. I'm sure. Yeah, somewhere. We were like, yeah, I'm sure somebody is named. There is some. But but we we

Ross Purdy we were just like, you know what, let's let's keep the city theme rolling. So we kept it rolling for the next two. OK, I got to ask, what are the two cities where the children? Yeah, the other two are London and Kingston. Nice. Yeah. OK. Well, have you been to London or Kingston? No. OK. So it's now our excuse, like we have to go. Yes. That's your work to do for their big golden birthday. Yeah, that's right. Your road trip in the Kingston. Well, I guess you can't really road trip, but but I love that. And I'm taking notes because of the as far as the golden birthday, I think that's I think that's phenomenal. Because later, too, I do want to ask you, like, right, does your family having your rites of passage, you know, when they hit a certain milestone or is there something you and your family do specifically, you know, for that child? And that could be it. I don't know. But but Mike, real quick. So obviously, what do you do? Because I do want to kind of kind of go backwards from that question. But what is it that you do right now? Job wise, because I'm also too curious as we dig a little bit into your family and where you grew up, did that any of that experiences lead to where you are now?

Mike Yates Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So what do you do right now? So job wise right now, my day job is I work for for this R&D, this research and design lab inside of Teach for America called the Reinvention Lab. OK. And I do a number of things. It feels a lot like startup world where like nobody really has a set role, everybody kind of does a lot of stuff. But I have I exist there as I as I have existed in a lot of places in my professional career as kind of like a service army knife, like I do a lot of things. And like when I was a kid and they told us we had to be well rounded, like I took that really seriously. And I didn't I just feel like I got really good at a lot of things. The number one thing that I got really good at was learning skills quickly and being able to perform and replicate like really fast. So I do a lot of stuff. I do everything from product design to video production, to content strategy, like literally everything. You name it like. So right now we're really we're building an AI product for talent matching. And we're going to look into, you know, we're looking to build out a larger AI framework. So so that's that's what I'm working on primarily inside of the Ravnich Lab. And on the side, I run my own little consulting company where I work with EdTech startups to help them either in their product design, their go to market strategy or their marketing and brand. And I'm working with a really cool AI startup right now called Sizzle.

Ross Purdy They're doing some super dope stuff. Wow, Mike. So I guess when somebody says, like, how's it going? Kind of a loaded question. Yeah. A lot going on. Yeah. If you really want to know. Yeah. Well, I love that, man. And sounds like just gosh, yeah, you're just a one man record machine as far as all the things that you're doing, especially in the in the world of education. Now, is a lot of what you're doing housed under Teach for America? Like, is that kind of your home base that allows you to do a lot of the the innovation?

Mike Yates I mean, I know you have your side, educational consulting. Yeah. I think so, though. Yeah. I mean, you know, people I if if people know me and they know like. Mainly, you know, the things that I talk about online, a lot of people, the number one question they ask me, they're like, man, why are you at Teach for America? Like, what are you doing there? And I think I I like staying there because it gives me the flexibility to do a lot of different things and try a lot of different stuff. It's like playing with house money, right? Like, so it's it's it's actually like contrary to what people might think, it's actually a real fun job.

Ross Purdy It's a blast. I love it. Well, and it sounds like vice versa, too, like they see value in you. I mean, if you're able to do a lot of things or like you bring so much value and you're helping us ultimately at the end, probably end of the day, reach more students, you know, more children. So so where you are now. So if you don't mind, like, let's just take a look back, because I'll see the the the genesis of the show and the purpose of the show is to really look at just as far as fathers out there and the role you know that that you're in, that I'm in. And my hope and my prayer, Mike, is that something that you say tonight may be a blessing to somebody out there, that somebody something that you say may encourage a dad that's really having a rough time or kind of wants to give up or, you know. So so that's really the heart of this is just for it to be a blessing to somebody, even if it's just one listener out there. So tell us, I know you said your roots are in Houston. You're from here. So what was it like as far as if we could go back in time? You know, and Mike, what was it like in your home, specifically the relationship like with your dad growing up?

Mike Yates And did you have some siblings as well? Yeah. Yes, I have siblings. I have two brothers and an older sister. My older sister is my half sister. So where are you in the pecking order? I am like middle. So I mean, I grew up like knowing my father and who he was, but like it did not grow up my dad in the house. And, you know, I think I was going to say recently, but it was not recently. It was maybe a year or two ago. But I helped launch this series called Dad Saves America with my good friend, John Popola, and got the chance to really like dive into that, like what it was like growing up without a father. Is that a podcast series? I'm sorry. Was it a what? It's a YouTube series. Yeah. Okay. Dad Saves America, like shameless plug. It's a great series. Yeah, it'll be in the it'll be in the show notes. But one of the things I think that I always think about as I've gotten older, I don't remember being sad or feeling like I was missing out on anything. It just kind of was. It was like, this is the way it is, you know? And I had enough male role models like growing up to where I just I don't. I feel like I had this incredible like grace from God, honestly, which sort of like absorbed that blow. I mean, like, I think as I got older and I've had kids myself, I would have appreciated and I would still appreciate like the ability to have someone to call. But I still have people that I can call, you know, and get advice from. But it would be it'd be nice to, you know, if I could call it. I mean, you know, I know him. I, you know, I have his number, but he's effectively a stranger to me

SPEAKER_02 to this day.

Mike Yates Yeah, like he's just a person who I quite honestly, I just don't think about him very often because I'm just so I am so busy with my own stuff. And like with my own kid, you know, and so it's like, I think it's one of those things where like I don't hold a grudge because I truly don't feel like I missed out on anything. You know, my mother, she still is and was my whole life a classroom teacher. And she like refuses to retire from the classroom, no matter how. This is like year 35 for her. So like, hey, you should hang it up. If she's listening to this. Yes. I'll send it to her. She started to say like all the old people things like all these kids, all their music is noise. The old people. That's like the real, but I mean, she was incredible in that. Like I just don't like it. It didn't dawn on me that we grew up in the hood until I was like 17. I was like, oh, like our neighborhood is not that safe. What high schools you go to? I went to Westside High School. Yeah. Yeah. And I was there when it was like, you know, pretty new. And I'm zoned for Westside. Oh, nice. Yeah. So you know, the area. Yeah. So I mean, we grew up, I was in Alief. Yes. And we, you know, I guess fifth war at first, but then, then we moved to Alief and we felt like Alief was like, I was like, man, look, we, we live in a house. This is, this is amazing. Yeah. You know, the week we moved in, somebody got shot in their driveway. And I realized like, oh, you know, Alief gets, it gets real in some places really fast. But, but I, I just, I had this and what I describe as this incredible childhood where I was involved in art and sports and like, I, I was just, I mean, you're from Houston. So, you know about this, I was just complaining to my wife. It's like Dallas doesn't have an art car parade and that is a shame. And like, you know, the Houston art scene, I was all over it. I volunteered and worked at the Houston zoo from the time I was 13 until I was 19 years old. You know, like I just had this amazing, what I feel like was an amazing childhood, you know.

Ross Purdy Well, thank you for sharing that, Mike, because I think, you know, whoever's listening to this, if it's a single mom or I mean, cause I think what a, what a tribute to your mom. And what a testimony to your mom. And I'm actually glad you brought that little nugget, a nugget up about her as far as being a teacher. Cause like, again, maybe that's a little seed that was planted in your heart. With what you're doing. So I want to delve into that a little bit later, but, but what a testimony to your mom. It sounds like what an amazing woman she is as far as with all two your siblings, but also to the power. And I don't know if she was intentional about this, but you mentioned and someone from wrong, but you mentioned there were some other male figures in your life, whether that was through the world of arts or a teacher or a coach. So we're, is that where some of those male role models you interacted with?

Mike Yates Yeah. A lot of it, a lot of it happened at church. You know, I was, I grew up in the church and I grew up at, in Houston, the largest church in America. I grew up at Lakewood church. Love her. Yeah. And you know, today in lots of circles, that's very controversial for a lot of reasons, but, uh, uh, like I legit remember when Joel Osteen was like, actually the video guy and nobody talked to him at all. Like, you know, like nobody even knew who he was. Right. Right.

Ross Purdy So actually the old campus, a friend brought me. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See people don't realize Lakewood used to be in the middle of an all black neighborhood. Yes. Oh, yep. It was a whole different vibe. I wish they were still there, but me too. Me too. A lot went out of the place when that, when they move. Yes. Yes. Know your roots, know your roots. So, so a lot of the male figures though, for you that made an impression on your life were

Mike Yates through the church or teachers. Okay. Okay. Um, at Westside high school was the, one of the greatest decisions that I made because they had, and now that I have been the teacher myself before and I've, I sort of know the deal. I'm, I'm assuming that, that there was, uh, some sort of stipend, uh, for teachers to move there. Cause Westside was one of the, it was the furthest out HISD school. New, right. It was an experiment. I remember that. And I thought it was just cool. Like I was like, my mom at that time, if you worked, uh, if you were a teacher in the, in the district, you could legally send your kid to any school in the district. So, right. My mom was like, Hey, do you want to go to Bel Air or do you want to go to Westside high school? Cause did she, did she work at Bel Air? Does she work at Bel Air? Uh, she worked at Pershing middle school. Yeah. And I went to Pershing. So like Bel Air was the, I was supposed to go there, you know, like, uh, that was what everybody told me. So did you make the decision to go to Westside with your mom? Okay. I toured the school and I saw that they had, I was really into culinary arts. Um, yes. And I saw that they had an Outback steakhouse attached to the school. Like that was the culinary program. And I was like, so son, like, awesome. Yes, please. Yeah. And I just found a bunch of teachers, uh, particularly, uh, males, which, you know, if you, if you're, you know, for listeners, if you know anything about teaching, it's, it's kind of rare to find male, specifically black male teachers in schools. Um, you know, I, I think about my high school speech and debate coach, which is probably my favorite teacher ever. Um, Mr. Martin, like incredible teacher, incredible person. Um, I created geography, Mr. Clarity, like lots of days after school, his classroom, just, you know, chilling with him. You know, I wanted to impress this girl who, uh, was from South America. And, uh, I had gotten word that Mr. Lee, who was a basketball coach and a history teacher, but he was one of those coach teacher combinations that like really cared about being a teacher. Uh, I had gotten word that Mr. Lee knew how to salsa dance. So I like after school went to his room and was like, Hey, I know that you can do this. I need you to teach me everything you know. And we started a Latin dance club at the school. Like it was awesome. Those are the experiences that I remember growing up, you know? So, and I think some of it was intentional. I know that some of it was, uh, like, cause I would hear my mom say like, Hey, help my, help my son learn X. But some of it, I just feel like was, I just describe it as just like God's hand on my life, you know, you know, filling in that gap. Mike, do you, um, do those, are those teachers still around? Do they know that they made such an impression on you? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I have, when I became a teacher, uh, I like actively sought them out. Um, the principal of that school, uh, this guy named Paul Castro, who is the principal of a school now called a plus up Academy. I see the founder of that school. Um, I need to reconnect with it because we were talking about me joining his board for that school, which was like, he was like, how often do you get to be your old principles boss? I was like, I don't

Ross Purdy know. But, uh, yeah, they know I've reached out to them and cool. And, uh, definitely they know. Okay. Cool. Well, cause I was going to say, if you have it, you need to let them know. That would be pretty neat. Uh, cause you know, obviously we don't do this to, I don't say, I don't know what your experience has been, but I feel like when you choose it, I feel like it's a calling, you know, um, cause he wants to kind of deal with parents and students and, you know, so it's, it's gotta be something bigger than you, but you know, you don't, it's, it's rare that you get some kind of feedback to say, thank you. You know, and it's huge. I got the kindest letter today, you know, from a family, um, that really kind of floored me and it, it, it just kind of gave me a shot of major energy, you know? Um, and there's a Ted talk that I saw and I'm blanking on the author's name. You would know them. Um, and we actually showed it to my former school, but he, he, he's a famous writer. Um, but his teacher was, I don't know if you've, tell me if you've heard this before, but she saw value in him and she would, she would sit him in the corner of the class and let him do his own thing in high school. And, um, he, no, no, I don't think so. But he, so he wrote a book, he dedicated it to her and he, he surprised her and he went back to his high school, knocked on her classroom door. She opened it, um, and said, I just wanted you to give you this. And, and she saw it and she just broke down in tears. She goes, um, I was about, I can't take it anymore. Teaching wise, it's, it's, as you can imagine, I'm, I've lost my passion, but this like was a big, it was, it was incredible. You know, just the fact that he, a teacher made such an impression in his life that he became this famous author, but he dedicated a book to her and he went back. So I guess just the power of saying, thank you of gratitude. Um, so that's cool. Um, that you, you did that. Um, so it's, but also too, I think not to get away too, from the storyline of a father. So some of these men and obviously your mom and some other, this is not at all to, to distract from the powerful role of women and moms at all. Um, but obviously with the premise of the show, there were some strong men in your life that somewhat kind of molded you. Um, if that's fair. Yeah. So also too, I wanted that to be a challenge to elicitors too, you know, that if, if, that if you are a single mom or to be intentional, um, about finding maybe whether it's through your church, whether it's through coaching, but some positive, put your child in some areas where there could be some positive role models of men. Um, but, but so did some of those teachers, how did that seed of education

Mike Yates get planted with you and maybe you addressed it to your mom? Yeah. And the other thing I'll just add really quickly to the previous statement is that, you know, one of the things that I, that I remember very clearly and always talk with my mom about is, um, like she sort of knew where, where the line was for her sort of like expertise to very, very clear about that with me. Like, uh, and she would tell me, like she was like, I cannot teach you how to be a man. So like, you need to go do this because this person can teach you how to do X, Y, and Z. Um, like my mom didn't teach me how to tie a tie. I learned because she put me in the Houston boys choir. Yeah. And the Houston boys choir, Matt Fowler, which was like, which was one of the choir directors, he taught me how to tie a tie. And, you know, and so, you know, like when I wanted to learn how to tie a bow tie, I called Matt Fowler when I was like 17 and I was no longer in the boys choir, you know, like, like, so she knew, uh, that like, to some extent, like her expertise ran out at a certain point and, uh, found the right resources. Um, and I think the, the answer to the second question, which is like, where did, uh, education go? I think it was from my mom. Like I, you know, admittedly, uh, she, she told me when I was, I must've been like 15 years old. Uh, and it, I, now that I've been a teacher before, I know it must've just been one of those days, but she came home and she was like, Michael, promise me you will never become a teacher. And she's like, it is too much work for not enough pay. And I was like, oh, you don't have to worry about that. I will never be a teacher. I don't ever want to do that. I hated school growing up. I was like, you know, until I got to high school, it was like school is the worst thing that ever happened to anyone. But I just, I actually saw the way that her students loved her. Uh, and it, it, it seemed to me to be very important to be a teacher because of the time that my mother spent out, like not teaching, like the time that she spent, she, she, uh, at Pershing middle school, she, uh, she, she created this girls math and science club. And one day I asked her, why do you have this? And she told me this story about, uh, everybody knows now, uh, but nobody was talking about it back then the, uh, because the movie hidden figures came out, uh, Kathleen Johnson. My mom was supposed to be one of the first women, uh, the first class of women to be a part of Kathleen Johnson's engineering, uh, program, her engineering internship at NASA. Yeah. But her family discouraged her. They were like, look, you cannot, you cannot go, you're not an engineer. Like you just like Claire from the block. Like you're not, you know, like you're not an engineer. And, and, uh, she ended up listening to them and it was one of the regrets that she still lives with that she never said, no, like I'm awesome at math. I'm awesome at this. And I'm going to go, that is kind of why she, uh, pushes me. Like if I, if I told her, if I call my mom right now and I was like, Hey, I'm going to build Bitcoin mines and, and then I'm going to build the space rocket and launch it to Mars. She'd be like, yeah, you are. She's like, do it like exactly. So, you know, like, but I watched her like make lemonade out of lemons. Like she turned that experience into the wackiest math class. And she was like the funniest teacher. Um, everyone loved her. I just, all this, she was hard on all of her kids and harder on me, you know, like, but I just watched her be this beloved teacher. She's one teacher of the year, multiple times in the district. Like she's actually like, she's objectively, my mom's awesome at teaching. And, uh, and I just watched that. I think it just got into me. Like I was like, Oh, you know, you know, I never, I've, I avoided it as long as I could. You know, we, we had a, we were, my oldest son was born very early at 25 weeks. So we, we lived in the NICU basically. And a friend of ours came to visit and said, Hey, like, I know you did speech and debate in college. There's this school that I work at and that I'm looking for somebody to revive their speech program. And I was like, look, I'm not going to be a teacher. I don't want to do that. Like I had, but I ended up, you know, because I had already quit my job to move into the NICU. I was like, well, I guess I do need to get another job. So I ended up working at this small classical private Christian school in Austin, Texas called Veritas Academy. And that is where I learned to love not just teaching, but education. You know, I had this unique mix of, this is making me emotional because on the record, my two favorite students both became teachers themselves. So it was just like, I just, I had this incredible first year of teaching. I did not have the disaster like everybody describes. Like I hit the ground running and I really, I had a lot of the same success that my mother had where I was a beloved teacher and parents were very gracious to let me know the impact that I was having on their kids when their kid would not let me know. And so I've, I just, I had a, I started doing it and I said to myself, this is a gift. Like I have this gift and I know where it comes from. I know that it comes from my mom. And then you go even further back. My grandfather hurt my mom's father. He was a pastor and a teacher. And my last name is Yates. Jack Yates is the first, he founded the first black private school in the state of Texas, which was in Houston, that emancipation park. So it just like, it's literally in my blood and I tried to run away from it, but I ended up.

Ross Purdy Mike, that's so awesome, man. Thanks for sharing that. I think it's just such a setup to what you're doing. And, you know, and I mean, I have to go spiritual. It's like, God had you where he wanted you and he's got you where he wants you. And it's funny too, cause I feel like, you know, be careful what you pray for, you know, I'm never going to be this. Well, look what happened. You know, and it's like, not that it was a calling for me, but I was like, I'm never going to live in Houston. Houston's a hell hole. I mean, I was born in, and I don't know what I'm talking about. I was born in Galveston, but when I was three months old, we moved to New Orleans. So New Orleans is my home. So it's not like New Orleans is some like, you know, but I love California, you know, like beautiful. It's the same as Houston, but I'm, but I would slam Houston all the time when we would come back and see growing the granddaddy in Galveston, you know, but I was like, I'm never going to live in Houston. And so like my third time moving back, I'm like, you know what, I'm not going to fight it. I'm going to freaking embrace the city and all that it has and all that it offers. And I, I love it. I don't know if I should say that publicly, but I don't being recorded, but I do.

Mike Yates I wish I was there.

Ross Purdy Well, we're at the end of this. Yeah, hopefully this will be the final persuasion to get your wife to come back home. But, but, but I love that story though, Mike, because again, it's such a testimony to your roots, to your mom, to your grandfather and the power of just changing potentially the trajectory of a future generation and not to sound cheesy, but it's like, if you can make a difference in one child. And I think sometimes the roughest students that I've had are the ones that I ended up like caring the most about because you put so much time and energy into them. And obviously any quote behavior issues, it's just really, they're crying out for attention. And it's just trying to unearth that to see what is it? What are you needing? You know, what is that basic thing that you're needing and that you're not maybe getting at home, you know, no matter if you're an independent school or a public school, whatever, right? So thank you for sharing that. And as far as though you, now you as a father, you had men that have stepped into your life. Before we turn the spotlight on you though as a dad to four, any of these men that were like father-like figures to you, and I'll kind of change the question a little bit, but was there something that somebody said to you? Also we know your mom, the power force that she is, but was there a male figure that really spoke to you or woke you up about something or is something that you still

Mike Yates adhere to or, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I mean, there's really two things that I think about, two that come to mind. One of them is this, is Mr. Martin, who was my high school speech coach. And I had never really had a teacher, like, I had never really had a teacher really believe in me, like he did. And he was always very real and honest with me. So it was good for that reason, but I had this conversation with him and we could not be any more different, right? Like, as I remember, he's from Louisiana, he's from Lake Charles. But he's this like white middle-aged gay male, right? And we're just like very different. But he convinced me to join the speech team and I loved it. And one day, I just decided to run for class president. My friends coerced me in the running. And then on the day of, he was the senior class sponsor, so he had changed student government to where it was not just a popularity contest. It was like there were real election speeches and real debates. He wanted to mirror the presidential election a lot more. And me being on the speech team, it was almost like it was rigged for me. But I was like, I don't want to do it. I was going to pull out. And he looked at me and was like, if you quit this, you will quit everything else that you will do when you become a man. Wow. And I was like, what? He was like, if you quit right now, you'll quit everything else important in your life. And then he just walked away. And I was like, oh, well, I guess I can't quit. And so I wrote this speech. I gave the speech and I didn't just win the election. I won in a, I got all the votes except for two. And there was 1200 people in my graduating class. Wow. Wow. But I was like going to quit. And I was not going to quit because I didn't think I could do it. I was going to quit because I just didn't want to. I just didn't want to do the work. And that rings around in my head, whether it's in the gym, whether it's working on a new project, starting a new podcast, whatever. Like, man, quit this. What else are you willing to quit? And then I think in terms of fatherhood, there was the other significant figure in my life was a youth pastor I had named Tom Elmore. He's now a real estate agent in in Fulcher, Texas. But I'm like gangbusters. I know. I know. But I don't know what it was that he saw, but he was like, hey, I think like, I just think God has a lot for your life. And I was like, cool, man, whatever. You know, like when you grew up at Lakewood church, you don't really go for the Bible. You go for the video games, the girls and the food. Like liquid is the greatest place on earth for a teenager. Well, it was back then we had every game system that existed. Right. It was awesome. But he invited me in his house. And I like the first time I saw he and his wife argue, I was like, Oh, that's fine. I've never seen that. I realized I've never seen my mom argue because my mom's not married, so she don't have to argue with nobody. And I was like, but that was rather healthy. Like, and they actually hugged at the end of it. I was like, Oh, that is not what it looks like on television. And I never see my mom do that. And I, you know, they have this crazy story where they had like, like his, his, his daughter, that his daughter was adopted. But his daughter was really his, his niece of his late sister. But he, and he was like, stepping up in this major way. So I was watching him figure out how to be a dad, but it was like all he was like, pulling from the advice from his dad. And I was like, man, this is, this is cool. So like my first lessons in fatherhood, it just came from watching Tom Elmore be a father and like him letting me into his home all the time. You know, I mean, does he know this? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, we like lost, I guess, like, yeah, we lost. Like when I went to college, I wanted like nothing to do with the Christian faith for, for two years. It was like, I'm out of this. But then when I, when I actually gave my life to Jesus, I called Tom and was like, Hey, I'm coming home. I need to like,

Ross Purdy let's hang out. I got to talk to you. That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. Well, the two things that, I think those are two great stories, Mike, and the fact that, you know, somebody spoke into you to say, cause I was like, man, what if, what if somebody said that to me, you know, because I think you do want to take the road less traveled. And for some, I say, uh-uh, uh-uh, right. Cause I have to marinate it on a little bit. If you tell me to go left, my, my tendency is like, well, I'm going to go right. Right. Oh, drink Coke. No, I'm going to drink Pepsi. Well, I just, cause I'm stubborn, you know, but if you played me like that and drop that little nugget, I would have to fester on it for a little bit. Like, you know what? I want to prove you thing. It, you know, and like, I do it, you know, but, but that's so freaking amazing though, that he dropped that and how that just seed is planted in you. And cause I'm curious too, how that, you know, how that's played out with you as a father to your children, which we'll get to in a minute. But, but also to the guy, um, your youth minister, who saw value in you. Um, and I think it's interesting that you brought up the whole fighting thing. Cause I think a lot of people don't especially in our culture, maybe with the divorce rates so high, but how do you have healthy arguments and disagreements and still come back together? Um, you know, cause I think there's beauty and safety with your partner or your spouse and say, like, we could disagree and have some, but, but I know you're a safe person for me that we're always going to come back, but to be able to see that played out, I think it's huge. So that's really interesting. You brought that up. Um, so thank you for that. So, so now turning the spotlight on you, Mike, as a dad to four kids. Um, and I know this is, this is probably a hard question, but it's like,

Mike Yates what has been your greatest challenge? Um, as a dad. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think, I think my, my, my biggest challenge is, um, is relating to my children. And what I mean by that is I have, uh, I have done, um, like when you grow up in a hood, like you fixate on making it out and that's what, you know, I did, I was like, look, I'm going to get out of here and I'm never coming back. Like, I mean, I love Houston and I miss it now. When I was 18, I wanted nothing to do with the city of, I was like, I want to get out of here and I don't want to see, I didn't, I wanted to get as far away from the people and the experience of Houston, Texas, because it was like, I grew up, it, I mean, now it's wild because all these famous people are coming out of Ali's like, like Toby and Lizzo, technically Beyonce, like all these famous people, the Bennett brothers and there, but if, if you listen to what they say about what it was like to grow up in a leaf, like you'll know, like it was rough. And I was just like, it's the most right in my understanding. It's pound for pound per capita. It's the most diverse school district, right? In the state of Texas. Yep. Cause you have such a huge refugee exactly group. Yeah. Yep. Just for people who don't know about a leaf. Yeah. And you know, a leaf, you know, what's interesting about it is that on the, there are certain parts of Alief that look like a suburb, but what it was, was the, the history of the, of the neighborhood is like, I mean, this was literal white flight. Like you had this area of town that was far enough away from downtown to where the houses were so cheap. Like when we, my mom bought a house in Alief for $80,000. Like let's think about that in 2003, she bought the house for $82,000. And when the last hurricane hit the insurance company said, Oh yeah, we'll give you, we'll give you 81,000 to repair. She was like, Oh, great. This is wonderful. Like sold it and moved on to a better house. But, but it was like a decent house, right? It wasn't like, it wasn't bad. These house. So that, I mean, that's just like where, where it is. But, but I, you know, so I, I've worked really hard and, and they've been, been blessed to get to this place in my career to where I make really good money to be in education. And I have this constant struggle of, with my kids, of wanting them to experience some of the same friction that I did because of, because I recognize the character that it built in me and the resilience that it built in me. But at the same time, like I don't want them to go I don't want them to, and just, just by virtue of like me having a fantastic mom, like I didn't necessarily, I just, I trusted that she was going to handle things and that we would always come out on top. But like, I remember really like her making really hard decisions. And at one point, at one point we were, we were homeless like growing up. So my kids have never had to experience any of that. And I sometimes really struggle when they say or say certain things or act certain ways. I'm like, Oh dude, like you don't even like, but y'all are growing up in the suburb. Like you're growing up in a way that like I used to dream about. Like I had this moment in my life recently where I was brought to tears because I mean, like quite literally we're joking about this, but while I was plotting to move to Houston, like we, I had convinced my wife to like, like, look, let's actually look at houses. And I, I thought to myself that I was like, you know, I wonder if I can afford a house in Bel Air. And it turned out that I could. And to me in my mind, like I didn't say anything out loud, but I was like, I made it in life. Like, like I don't need anything else. I can afford a house in Bel Air. Like when I was a kid and I went to school out there, I was like, I'm never, I can never live somewhere like this. And like seeing that did something for me, but still like my, my kids don't, because of what we do for them, they don't, that's just not their reality. And I, so I fight this really, I fight this battle of like not wanting that to be their reality, but also like really sometimes struggling to relate to the things that they say. And honestly struggling to stomach some of the things that they say as

Ross Purdy they are being provided for in the way that I, that they actually should be provided for. Well, and how do you, and how do you, which I, to keep, I think for any parent, right, you want your child, your child to be able to come to you and talk to you about anything and everything. Yeah. Right. And so I guess it's like by what you just shared, how do you bite your lip and not jump in with a sermon to say, you have no idea. And maybe this is kind of what I'm getting from what you're saying is how I'm hearing it, is that how do you replicate to some degree, maybe so that the tension that you had that made you who you are, how do you replicate that somehow with your children to appreciate what they have and not being quote spoiled or whatever. But then, but if they come to you, how do you not jump in and shut down lines of communication by lessening their reality? Is that right? That's the big struggle. And what I have figured out is if I just, if I pause and look at my wife, uh, Alex normally, she, she normally has the answer to these things. So it's a look of you step in. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, Hey, I need you to take you because they're about to get a 35 minute lecture. Yeah. Oh, you know, of the old man, you, what'd you say earlier about my mom's starting to sound like, uh, gosh, what'd you say earlier about my mom's saying like old, old, oh, but wanting the kids these days, all the kids know it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you're starting to sound like some old like back in my day. That's exactly.

Mike Yates And just realize it like, like they're the context that they have for life is not even wrong. It's just, it is what it is. And it's like, it's the things that I sort of wish I had when I was younger. And there are even sometimes where I, I, I, I saw this Joe Koy stand up where he was talking about, you know, growing up, growing up poor. And then now that he has money, there are some things where like, or, you know, like, he's like, I'm an adult, I can buy what I want. And that means I can also buy my kids what, what I want as well. And so he like, his son sees this toy in a store and he's like, man, when I was a kid, I really wanted one of those. And son's like, well, I don't want that. And he was like, no, no, no, you're going to get this for us. Like we are going to play with these

Ross Purdy toys. I feel like that's because I never had it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think too, because that's another thing that's kind of come up a lot with, you know, Mike, with my past, you know, guests is that line of communication with their kids where they, where your child could really feel like they can come to you about anything. And I think that's the sweet spot where they're not going to feel judged or feel my last guest that has not been released yet, a Houston guy. His son is not, quote, the athlete. His son is a little bit more, you know, artsy or whatever. And dad's kind of not that way, but, but how he just really has had to like pause his internal, you know, yeah, biases, whatever, and really just literally sit with his son and just listen to him and just, Hey, if that's your interest, that's your interest. But, but anyway, just meeting the child, meeting each child where they are, you know, and just really, the hope is to nurture that open lines of communication. Right. Right. You know, and I'm sure with your four kids, those are four huge different personalities, you know, so, you know, not only with your background and what you had to go through, and I said this in my last podcast too, so for listeners, I apologize, but you know, it's, I love analogies, because that's the only way I can learn is visual, but is, you know, the butterfly, like if you go and rescue a butterfly out of the cocoon, it's going to die. They die. That's right. It needs that resistance of the cocoon because it makes the wings stronger to really fly, be who it was created to be. And so we, as parents, whenever we want to rescue, rescue,

Mike Yates our kids may fail, you know? And so how do you, Mike Yates, you know, create that tension without, you know, doing more damage? Yeah. You know, yeah. I love that butterfly analogy. I wrote a speech about that when I was in high school. Oh, did you really? Yeah. Yeah. I had heard that story where the scientists put the incision in the cocoon and the butterfly ends up dying because

Ross Purdy it needs the, it needs the struggle for the blood to flow to its wings and limbs. There you go. That was a divine topic right there, my friend. That's a great analogy. It's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. And I'm not going to call any names because I may have some current parents that are listening to this, but, and this is a whole nother conversation when you move to Houston, we'll go to, we'll go grab some barbecue, but, but, but it just, you know, I see it all the time. We just took our kids to a camp. Now in granted, it was the perfect storm where COVID, these families go from zero camp outs to a three-nighter. Oh, wow. Right. It's a lot of these kids that never spend a night from home. And then also too, we were pretty anal about our lines of communication to our parents. And there's a lot of intentionality behind that because we're actually trying to pull the parents off the proverbial T right. And also to the students. Um, but man, I mean, it really did expose some ugliness. Um, it was good, but then it was tough to actually go through it. But again, kind of getting back to that resistance and like your kids are going to have to face this at some point. So at one point, are you going to rip the bandaid off, you know, if you will, but anyway, so, so with, with your children though, um, you know, I know, um, as far as the biggest challenge, and I get that as far as, and I think what you were saying is trying to understand them is, is that, but, but since you have four, how, how do you, in all that you're doing, um, and obviously with your wife, how do you meet them, you know, individually for who they are? Do you guys carve out specific times with each child? Are there traditions in your house? Like we're going to eat together every night as a family. What, what is it

Mike Yates that? Yeah. Yeah. Um, we have, we have that dinner time tradition for sure. Um, so we have two, like meal time traditions, which is, which every night dinner at the dinner table, um, and, and uh, Sundays after, you know, some of we have, we have a lunch every Sunday to make sure that we have the time to connect. And then at dinner, we, um, I mean, I love storytelling. I don't, I think it's an important discipline for people to learn. Um, so I started a year ago telling these wacky stories and then my kids were like, Hey, I'm, I want to get in on this. So now it's like this little tradition where like everyone tells a story and decides whether it's made up or true, um, uh, at these meal times. So we have, we have those traditions and then, um, as much as we can, we, we try to get one-on-one time with kids. Um, so like if I'm going to the grocery store, like, I know that one, there's one of my daughters that will always be like, Hey, I want to come. And I love that because that's like, that's like a car ride. And I will purposefully go to a grocery store that is farther away so that I could spend more time in the car talking to her. Um, you know, and, uh, but yeah, it will be intentional one-on-one time. And then those meal times. Um, and then sometimes like when things are, it's, these are just like, we don't plan these, but like, kind of like my wife and I can like look at each other and just, we know, like, you know, we, this week we've, we've had like a pretty rough week just like with some health stuff going on with kids. And, um, um, we, my wife was so tired, we were supposed to go somewhere and she could not find the keys to our minivan. And so nobody panicked. We were just like, you know what, everybody go back in the house and we will just not go until we find these keys, but nobody was stressed. And we, it was just one of those moments where we knew like it's time for Yates family ice cream party. So I went and got a bunch of ice cream. We had this little ice cream party with music, movies, ice cream, you know, we do that. Yeah. Every time things feel overwhelming, we tend to do that. So we're hoping to keep that up. Yes. Our kids are well into their adult lives. Well, how you can keep that in the moment to, to, to be that mindful, I know to recognize that and to be able to do that. Yeah. It mainly, you know, I, I, most of the, the, the credit with parenting parenting that goes right in our house really does belong to, to Alex. I mean, but I really, I say this and I'm not joking. I mean, like, she is like LeBron James level, like of a parent. She just gets it. Like she was, you know, she, she was a high level track and field athlete has broken NCAA records. Like he's an incredible athlete and all she's ever wanted to do was be a mom. Oh, and she is excellent. She treats being a mom, like an Olympic athlete. And so when she gets flustered, I am like, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, this is, I gotta do something. So

Ross Purdy it's normally ice cream ice cream party. That's my good ice cream party. Yeah. So if you see her break it down, you're like, Oh man, it's, it's, this is real. Yeah. Cause if she don't have it, nobody's going to have it. Like, so so ice cream normally jolts us all out of that. That we relax. That's so fun, man. And I love the fact that the intentionality, um, another one of my guests, he, he would take his, yeah, I kind of like you, but he would take his two kids on a drive and they would just go drive to Buc-E's. It was like their Buc-E's night on Friday night. They live in Waco and they would just get, but just allow that time. I think it was like a Friday night, you know, he says the conversations that would come out of it, you know, but that was his time with his kids, mom stayed back at home. Um, so I love hearing about traditions and rituals that families do, you know, just to kind of create that bonding and that connection. Cause I think that that's so important. You know, my dad would take us out on date nights, you know, so, and especially for, for my sisters, he would take them on a date night. He would open the door for them. He would hold a seat open for them at the dinner table, you know, at the, at the table, cause he wanted to raise the bar of how they should be treated. That's right. I love that. So I thought that was really cool that, you know, he's like, don't accept anything less, you know, for men, if they don't open the door for you or blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. So I thought that was, that's, that's always been an impression on me. And do you have girls? Did you end up doing that too? So I have a stepdaughter, um, and then my son, right. But my stepdaughter, um, we try to, I'll be honest with you, we were very thankful. She has a very active father who doesn't live very far. Um, he actually lives pretty close to the West side. Um, but, uh, so obviously she does have that positive, you know, father figure in her life. Um, but we, when we do go out, I always open the door for her. Yeah. That's awesome. You know, um, yeah. So that was something that was laid down,

Mike Yates you know, with, with, with my dad. Um, that's so funny. Cause my mother, it didn't matter who it was. She used to make like, she'd make me like run to open doors for like old ladies. Like it was just like in me. So like when I got to college and the first time I opened the door for this girl, she was like, I can, I can open the door for myself. I was like, I mean, I know that, but like, this is what, this is what I am here to do. It's like, I've been trained.

Ross Purdy I don't know any other way. And I think that's all that could be a whole other show too, right? As far as like chivalry and then in our culture today, like independence and I don't need a man. I don't know, but it's like, I don't, I'm sorry. It's just, it's, that's how I was raised to like show respect. And, um, and she's going to listen to this show. So, but our principal who actually introduced me to you and, uh, I think one of your friends who I just had, uh, Mr. Barnes, um, a couple of weeks ago. Um, but so she was one that, that had said, you gotta reach out to these guys. But anyway, but, but Melissa was like, she's, she, she's from Virginia. She's not a Southern girl. And I remember we were, when she first got hired, we were around some errands together and I just, my, my, my nature was to open the door for her. And she's like, are you, what's, what's happening? I go, I, sorry. I just, it's what I do. And so thankfully she didn't like belittle me, you know, so like,

Mike Yates thank you for humor me, but I'm sorry. It's, it's just part of my DNA. It's like, ma'am, you were in the South now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, on a side note too, cause you mentioned storytellers. Are you a moth fan? I am a huge fan of the moth. Um, I have adapted there. Uh, I went to the moth teachers to, and turned to their storytelling workshops into one, one of my own.

Ross Purdy Oh, did you really, were you here? They were here last week or sorry, you're in Dallas. Never mind. Oh, they were in Houston. Yeah. Sorry. That was not intentional, but they were in Houston and I couldn't go cause I was with my fifth graders, uh, out in West Texas, but, um, Melissa, my principal like, we gotta go. I was like, I can't, but, um, I just, I'm reading the book storytellers.

Mike Yates Oh yeah. Yeah. So I'm in the middle of, in, um, I guess he's what, one, all these. So anyway, great books. I just didn't know if you'd. I mean, it's the moth and slam poetry, like in Houston, there's actually right now a poetry, which is just like some phenomenal, some of the best poets in the world come, come and perform there. So.

Ross Purdy Okay. Well, another reason to get you down here. Um, um, well, I had to mention that cause you dropped that, that reference, but, um, anyway, very cool. So what did you, as far as, I mean, obviously you as a father, um, and with your kids and, and I do, cause I do, I do want to take advantage of a little bit of having you, um, you know, on the show. Cause I think I would, I don't want to like end it with any regrets because I do know that one of your, um, topics is school suck. Um, cause I do want to hear a little bit about just your take on that. And for, for listeners, kind of your macro view to happen in the world of education. Um, and how you like to kind of, what'd you say earlier to, um, would you say you like agitate? Yeah. Like, what are you agitating? You know? Um, but I do want to, I kind of want in the, maybe the podcast on that, but I do have two last questions, but to you specifically about being a father. And then I do want to hear a little bit about education since I'm in education. Um, but what would you, what would you go now that you have four kids in, in, in, in, obviously they're kind of concentrated in this, you know, what four to nine right now. Um, but what, if you could go back and tell your, what would you go back and tell

Mike Yates yourself at the birth of your first child, what you do now of having four kids? I think it would be, um, I would give myself advice about the gentle hand of a father. Um, I, with, with, with my, with our oldest, we went through this journey where we, we, but more me than, than we very hard on him as a young, like he's still young, but like when he was, when he was like two and three, we were still very, very hard on him. And, um, a lot of it comes from, and I think this is common amongst lots of black fathers, just like, it was like, you're growing up in a world that hates you, you know? Um, and whether that is right or wrong to think or say or whatever, right? Like a lot of black fathers, I know, you know, when, when I talked to my, my buddies, like that comes up and we went to, we were too heavy on that with him. And so much showed where we lost, we, we, we lost him at one point, uh, where we just like, he wouldn't, he didn't want to engage, right? Like he saw us as the law and, and he didn't open up and it took, it took six months for him to start opening up again. And, you know, we learned the balance between being firm and having boundaries and, you know, like, right, rightly correcting and, and redirecting when, when it's, when it's necessary. Right. Um, so I think it's that definitely. And we, we progressively learned that like, you know, time over time, you know,

Ross Purdy What did that look like though, Mike, when you said, I guess, like you're a hard or, you know, expectations for a young, you know, black male, uh, like what did, yeah, what did,

Mike Yates yeah, what did that, I guess, to try to picture. Yeah. A lot of times we didn't let him be a kid. Like when he would go, we would go out in public, like there was no crying. There was no, I got you. It was like, look, man, like, like suck it up, be tough. Yeah. Like you're not drawing attention to years. We're not doing that. Like, I got you. Um, and we, you know, we were very, very strict, which is, you know, like now we, we look back and we're like, man, that was so foolish given like, given his history, um, being, he was born at 25 weeks. So, you know, there was a lot of reasons, a lot more reasons to give him grace, uh, for, for a lot, a lot of things, but you know, he went through the terrible two phase like everybody else. And what that was where we were like, Oh, but we didn't, we had never seen it before. We didn't, we'd heard about terrible twos, but we didn't know what to do. And it didn't really hit us until the sec we had our, our second child and we were like, Oh, I've, I've seen this before. I know what this is. Um, but. So they didn't revisit your, so soon. Yep. I mean, terrible two situations. Like I had a moment with, with my oldest when he was six, where I had to sit him down and say, look, man, I'm really sorry. Like, I didn't know what I was doing when we had you. I was 23 years old. So when you were going through that, I was 25 and I was stressed as a teacher. I didn't know anything. And he was like, that is okay. Nobody knows everything. I forgive you. And it like, I mean, he is the sweetest, like most gentle kid in the world. Uh, and we just, we're like thankful that we did the work to sort of get him back. Cause his person, like he sort of hit him, hid his personality. Cause he was like, I'm, you know, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm assuming he was like, I'm going to get in trouble regardless of what I do. So, you know, I'm not going to do

Ross Purdy anything. Um, but we're like, we were so thankful to have him back. Well, it's also, I think that you guys were self aware enough, right? I guess to, you know, cause you don't have a whole adage of like, we don't have an instruction book, a manual when you're a kid, right? My kid's born. We're learning it kind of as we go or whatever, but you were doing the best that we can. But the fact that you show your, you show you and your wife gave yourself some grace and became back. It sounds like to them and said, Hey, we're sorry. You know, um, that's cool. So, okay. So, so that would be, I guess if you could go back and say, just show a little bit more grace, be a little bit more with him. Is that fair? Okay. Um, well, thanks for that. And I think too, last question, as far as you, Mike, um, as far as a father to, to your four, in all that you're being exposed to, I'm assuming not really knowing you, but, uh, in the world of education and everything that you're battling out there, what would you say is the biggest challenge facing, facing dads today? In education? No, I mean, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put you in the box, whatever. Just, that's a huge question, you know? But what do you think the biggest challenge

Mike Yates are facing fathers out there? I think it's, I think it's being present still. I mean, being present. Yeah. You know, I, I grew up without a father and I, there, I have to remind myself that like, there are some kids who grow up with, where both parents are technically around, but they still don't know one of their parents because work takes precedent over, like, so I think we, we have to remind ourselves, like as a, as a father, you'd naturally want to be a provider and, and that's a good thing. But sometimes you gotta know when like, enough is enough and you have to know when, when you gotta turn it off and turn on your, your dad hat and how to like, how to, how to, I mean, truly, I, I hate saying work-life balance, but like truly balance both of those roles because one of them is more important and it's the father hat. How do you do it? How do you do it? I have this, so we, one of the things that we did at the Revenger Lab was the sneaker competition and the founder of the brand. So we partnered with this brand called 99 products. Founder of this brand that we partnered with to pull off this sneaker competition. We basically produced real pairs of the winning sneakers. The founder was like ex Nike, ex, ex, you know, he was, you know, worked at Adidas, Nike, you know, he, he, he created the Yeezy brand, which is the most hyped sneaker ever. He's lead designer on that. His kids all work in the footwear industry. And then one day I asked him, it's like, Jeff, I have access to you. You're, you, I've seen your kids around you. They love you. What is the secret? And he said, I never closed the door to my office ever. So it didn't matter if it was still night. It didn't matter if it was Kanye West. It didn't matter. My kids had access to me at all times. And if you, there, there, you can go find photos of the earliest designs and mock-ups for Yeezy that have crayon or juice. And it is from this. Now what I think is a design prodigy named dream Henderson, who was Jeff's oldest son. Okay. Like dream was a model in Kanye's initial like fashion show for the Yeezy brand, you know, like, but Jeff was really clear. He's like, I never closed the door. And so I, as much as I can, I tell my kids like, look, if you need me and the door is closed, open it, like come, come in here. And then I also just give my wife permission to remind me

Ross Purdy when I'm not doing well with that. And she does. I love that, man. I love that. I'm taking notes. Seriously. Like this is, this is the whole reason I'm doing this show is like, I love that. I'm glad I asked that question, dang it. Cause I would have gotten that nugget from you. And that's powerful, you know, and also to Mike in, in, you know, I hear this from a lot of my guests too, and just, you know, I'm sure you can imagine as a father too, with a nine year old, but you blink in a time flies, time flies. And so many of my, my friends are guests that have older children are just like, I wish I would have spent more time or I wish I wouldn't have been so much on the golf course or hunting, you know, like my personal hobbies could have been more on the way side, you know, but I sacrifice some of that, you know, and I think it's just spending that time, you know, and being intentional about it. And I love the fact that you said your wife, Hey, I need you to hold me accountable. So if I'm, you know, if I need to be reined in a little bit, bring me in, you know, so, yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's cool. I appreciate that. And so before we get into the, obviously your thoughts on education, cause I've got to ask, is there anything that, you know, Mike, that I haven't asked you that just through the course of our chat, like that you do want to share just from your vantage point of a father or

Mike Yates your growing up? Is there anything that, that's early in your heart that you want to share? Yeah. I mean, like nothing that you didn't ask. But I think, I think the thing that I'll share is just like for any, any father listening to this, like, it's just really hard. And honestly, like the world changes so fast that I, my, my greatest hope with, with, with podcasts like this is what I love that you're doing. This is like, I think there needs to be a more positive narrative about the father in American media, in America in general, because fathers are so important, like way more important than, than we know. And my wife and I talk about this constantly. It's like the effect that fathers have on both girls and boys is, is just like, you can't understate it. Like quick example is like, I, you know, one of my hobbies is like, I, whenever I get a chance to, which is not very often, I will play video games. And one of them is my favorite video game is NBA 2k. I've been playing it since before it was cool, because it used to cost $20. And my mom bought it for me when I was a kid. And I was like, oh, this is actually pretty good. Instead of the $50 that it'd be a life. Well, yesterday, my wife, I'm like out shopping for groceries or something. My wife is like, she sends me a screenshot of the TV and my daughter's playing NBA 2k. She's like, I asked her if she wanted to watch like her favorite show. And she was like, no, I won't. I want to play that game with that place. It's just like, did you get emotional? Like, oh my gosh, I did. I was like, you know, like, but it was just one of those moments where, you know, like, if you don't let your kid in, like if you, if you have a hobby, like bring the kid, you know, like let them do it with you, you know, like I just, dads are so important. And I just want to remind any dad listening to this, like what you do and how you do it is so important to your kid. Like it means everything to them.

Ross Purdy Mike, I got that. Yeah, man. I appreciate that. And I think like, again, the whole, at the onset of the show is that we're not, we're all in this together. I think sometimes we, it's, I don't know about you, but I think sometimes males in general, can tend to be a little bit of isolationists. And we have to put on a strong front and we're not struggling with anything. And, you know, but just to be okay to have a band of brothers or something that you could at least share with or be vulnerable with, you know, and just be able to lean on each other because it's tough, but also to be present with your children. And I think, you know, it's interesting, I think how a father plays in the role of a daughter, because you always hear that if a girl doesn't have a positive father figure, they're always going to be looking for that validation in the wrong places. And how important it is for a father to be able to speak into his daughter's life to say, to give them that validation. But also to, and there's probably that natural tension with the father and the son, right? Because there's the son's like, because you want them to be independent. Well, all your kids want to be independent, but that struggle maybe of a father and a son, you know? But also too, that plays a different role as far as that relationship with the father or son. There's a book too that it's based out of a church up in Arkansas, but raised in a modern day night. Oh yeah. Yeah. That felt pretty neat. Just kind of like how kind of the stages of raising a young man, quote, for battle, but how to be chivalrous and to treat women with respect. Right? And so kind of an interesting, I don't know if you've read it. I haven't, but it is in my Amazon save list. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my prayer is that I could get the author on this because I love to chat with him, but I'm just kind of a powerful book too, you know, as far as raising a young man, you know? But so Mike, thank you for sharing that and thank you for being vulnerable and just taking a risk with me, not knowing me and just having a conversation about just your experiences as a father and your upbringing and just really, really awesome to hear your story and how much value you're bringing. But I think the biggest thing that you're doing is just being a father and a husband and how you're changing the trajectory of your children's lives, you know, every day. So I hope that can be a word of encouragement to others out there. But I do need to, before we wrap all this

Mike Yates up, I do need to get your, okay, what's going on in the world of education? Yeah. You know, just talk to us a little bit, you know, about that because, yeah, what's your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I think education's in a, I think it's, we're in a really interesting place. But I think and I hope that it's a good place. I was disappointed at what happened after COVID. I thought when the world shut down, I thought- Big reset. Yeah. I was like, you know, this is the moonshot moment, right? Like this is the, somebody's got to build something incredible. And I didn't see that. It didn't happen. But I do think that because of COVID, more parents are choosing different options. You know, I think about like, you know, when COVID hit, I was, before Teach for America, I was helping to build this very unique and innovative micro school called Alpha. And in the middle of the pandemic, we tried to scale from Austin to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Brownsville all at the same time. And I remember families in Houston specifically saying, why would I leave St. John's to come do this new little thing? Or why would I leave high school for, HSPBA? Or why would I leave Lamar? Like, why would I come do this? And then those same families changing their tone after seeing what school was like. You know, the school system was kind of caught with its pants down, so to speak. And so I am hopeful that there will be more school models created. I think that's one of the gaps that people keep saying, or people keep forgetting about. Like, they're like, you know, like you're at the Fay school. Like, I think that's a really unique model. And like, when I think about Houston, like the post oak school and, you know, all these independent and micro schools, like Montessori schools, like, I think those are really important. And there needs to be more of them so they can be a true middle of the market in the school system. And then I'm also just really excited about what's going to happen with AI. And then the last thing I'll say is like, I really do hope that more families choose to homeschool. Like, we homeschool our kids, all four of them. We are in a position to homeschool and not just not even really, I'm not even talking about financially. We're in a position of homeschool because we both want to. And when I was making $40,000 a year, we homeschooled. And my wife stayed at home and was a teacher. Like, we made the sacrifice to be able to do that because it's important to us. And I think we're starting, I hope that we will see more families make that choice because I think it's the right choice for more people than we think. Is it because. Okay. No, no, no. I was just saying, I would just hope that parents would feel confident that they can teach their kids as well. That they can, you know, do the work, do the leg work, do the research and teach their kids if they don't have a great school option near them. Because you controlled, because obviously the controls really in your hands, you're controlling somewhat of the narrative as far as messaging, but also to the content and meeting your child where they are. Right? Yeah. I mean, you know, our model is pretty different than what we do at home is pretty different than most people. But yeah, I mean, I would, I would, I think that there are all of these questions that are arising in school lately in the school world, which is like, who do children really belong to? Do they belong to their parents or do they belong to the state? You know, when a kid walks into a school building, whose responsibility are they? Right? Like, and so like, because we, because the custodial nature of school is important, I think, I just, I think more options is the answer at this point in the future. And I think homeschool should be one of those viable options. But like, I mean, if you look at an area, like if you look at like Washington, DC, like there, I use this as an example, often Ward six, seven and eight is the lowest income and most dangerous area in Washington, DC. But there is only the only option you have is the local public school. Like there's not even a charter school option. So those families who like, where they like, they live in, in a bit of a failed state, because like we live in this country where, where, where like education is in many ways the key to upward mobility. Right? Like it's that or like you are LeBron James. Right? Like, like, we, even when you look at, when you look at the, the school that most famous actors went to, they went to a university, a school, you know, like, so I, I wouldn't, when education is the great equalizer, when you don't have an option to even get out and say, you know, like reject, nope, I don't, regardless of, of if it's about, you know, content, political ideology or quality, right? Like I, I think that we need more options. Okay. Is there any school or area that's, that's doing it right? Oh yeah, certainly. I think like, so I'll say in the public school, man, North Dakota, that whole state, specifically Fargo and Northern Cass. So all the superintendents in North Dakota, they met and they decided, like they defined what innovation meant for their state. And they have just all decided to pursue it together. So they're all like, I mean, actually helping each other drive towards innovation. So as a result, you have like Northern Cass ISD, which is a smaller school district, but it is a school district that has no grades, complete competency-based learning. And they validated their model with North Dakota state. So they have an extremely high college acceptance rate with no grades. And that is only possible because Fargo, the biggest district in the state decided to try it too. So they're all in. Yeah, they're all in. I mean, you know, so Dr. Corey Steiner from Northern Cass is very good friends with the Fargo superintendent, which is Rupak Gandhi, who actually he was my, in high school, he was my assistant speech coach. And yeah, it's like crazy. Wow. Rupak's wife is the superintendent of the neighboring school district. Right. So, you know, they, I think they like they're, everybody should be talking about North Dakota and nobody is because what's happening in the school world there in the public school district, I think is a, is, is a model that should be happening other places. And then I think there's a lot of, a lot of micro schools. I mean, obviously I had a big hand in creating Alpha. Alpha is a school in Austin. It's now the official school model of SpaceX replaces direct instruction with adaptive learning software, which makes more time for life skills, projects, workshops, despite what that's, what it sounds like. It makes the adults in the building more important, not less important. And so I think Alpha, Alpha is cool. I, you know, I, I think what's happening at Nuvu in Boston is really cool. All of the DaVinci schools, you know, portal schools is a school in LA that happens. They have school on the Belkin campus. And so they have this integrated like business and entrepreneurship curriculum that's supported by Belkin employees, like tons of, I, well, I won't say tons, but I think there are, there are real pockets of innovation, like real big ones now where a lot of things are going right.

Ross Purdy Okay. Well, I feel like in Houston too, we're the most, we're the most international or we're the most diverse city in the States. Yeah, for sure. And all with, with Texas growing, Houston growing, obviously Dallas to Fort Worth, Austin, you know, I feel like this potentially should be right, especially Houston. But, you know, I think with the independent schools that I'm kind of in that world that yeah, for some reason, you know, God bless St. John's and King Cade, but for some reason they hold the standard. I don't know why. And it's like a, it's like a club. Everybody's just really interested about trying to be a part of it. You know, but, but it seems like there's a whole lot of room for people to think inside the box, you know, and, and I was talking to Matt, you know, it's like, I, if I could go back and go, I used to work at the Methodist Children's Home, you know, there in Waco at the Boys Ranch. So we would take our boys to TSTC. You could see, you could see the campus kind of almost from our ranch. And so we would take them, you know, we would take them, we would go to the apartments. They decide you fill out an apartment application. This is what you need to do, you know, trying to empower them. And we would go take a tour of TSTC. I'm like, I want to go here. Like, are you kidding me? The fact that I could walk out with a, with a trade and make X amount and I've got a trade, like I've got something that I can always fall back on, you know? And I'm like, we've gotten away. And again, I don't want to hijack the conversation, but you know, it's like, I feel like we could, you know, we could have, we're trade schools and Home X, you know, at the middle school level and where even if you want to go to college, great, you know, but you, do you have something you could fall back on and there's no shame at all in any of that stuff? You know, so I don't know, I just, I've heard, I don't know if it's true, but you know, Galli Furniture, I thought that they had started some kind of a trade school for, what is it, middle or high school kids or something. Or that was a seed that was planted, but I don't know, just there's that whole area too that I think kids are just

Mike Yates bored. They're not being challenged. And, but you know, Ross, I think that's so right. Like, you know, there's a friend of mine, a good friend of mine is actually, you know, he pivoted his startup. He was basically trying to reinvent community college. And then he decided, you know what, actually I want, I want to create more direct pathways into trades for young people. So he's trying to, he's creating this, this system where the young person gets paid while they're 14, 15, 16, like to do, to do like they're on the job site. It's not like happening in a vacuum. So he's trying to like accelerate the process of getting the, getting them certified and into trades. Because I mean, exactly what you said, like everybody can't, everybody can't get in the tech, like everybody can't break into tech, you know, like there's a, there are a lot of really great schools. One of the schools that I can't say enough good things about is Rooted School. Rooted School is in New Orleans, New Orleans, Indianapolis, and I think Vancouver, Washington. And their students graduate with a, with acceptance into a four year university and an entry level job in tech. But, but not everybody's interested in, in cybersecurity, you know, not everybody's interested in being an analyst. Some people in, in a lot of cases, you can actually make more money as a plumber.

Ross Purdy 100%. And you can start your own company and hire other plumbers. That's right. And you can work less too. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and, you know, Matt, we were talking to, it's like, what are, what are, you know, what did they do 200 years ago when they're working on the farms, you know, and how do you, how can you make that into real world, like today, you know, where kids have to, whether it's cut the grass or, you know, but I don't know, I, I'd love to, I don't know, my side thing is like, I'd love to start because, you know, too, in Houston, when anywhere parents are looking for things to do over the summer, you know, when school is out, they're like, oh my gosh, we're going to go to camps and this and this and this, but have like a, a summer, a summer trade, you know, camps and workshops where you learn how to cut grass. You'll learn, you get your, your babysitter licensing or CPR or so then you can go out there and actually make some money being a babysitter at a young age. And you know what I'm saying? Like empowering our kids at a younger age, because I feel like a middle school, nobody wants to be a middle school because it's, it's the middle seat on the plane. You know, it's like, everybody hates it. We don't want it. We're all walking wounded from our middle school years. So, but how do we, how can we empower some of our middle school kids? So that way they have a little bit of a swagger and like, yeah, I'm actually

Mike Yates good at this or this or this, you know, anyway, we should talk about it because one of the projects that we're working on at TFA is actually reinventing summer. So we should talk about that because I actually have an idea for like maybe the perfect partner. There's a school in Fort Lauderdale called Colossal Academy that happens, it happens on a farm. Like they have school on a farm and their thing is like very similar. It's like, there's all of these, there's all of these tasks that are actually jobs that people don't consider jobs. One of the ones that they always use, the example they always use is like dog walkers in New York and how like dog walkers in New York make more than some teachers in certain states. And you're like, oh, I didn't know that. But if you like, if you could get paid to walk someone's dog on the

Ross Purdy Upper East Side for a few hours a day and make $75,000 a year, would you do it? Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yes. Podcasts on and walking. Yes. Yes. Sign me up. And I'm getting exercise. I mean, come on. That's right. You know? Yeah. Well, I just think, you know, that, yeah, I mean, I just think whether it's your chicken, we have chickens at our school. We have a garden at our school. Oh, nice. So how do you teach the kids? How many eggs are the chickens yielding, you know, for the month of March versus the December when it's colder, do they produce enough more eggs then in there? So there's all the math things that you can dig into that. Or I love the mountain bike, you know, so like in the morning, go to take your core classes. But in the afternoon, you got mountain bike all day and but you're learning geometry or math through your bike. And I don't know, I just think there's there's a potential opportunity there too, with with parents and summer and, you know, learning an actual trade. But absolutely. There you go. Well, Mike, I wish you did live in Houston, because we could carry the conversation over some food. But it'd be fun to have to meet you in person. But thank you. I really, really appreciate your time. And, and really, I have really enjoyed the conversation. And all of your information, you know, for the listeners to will be in the show notes, as far as getting to know who Mike is, and just all the links to who you are and what you're doing, and how you're being an agitator. So God bless you in that role. Continue to agitate, agitate relentlessly, and still be still be the awesome husband and father that you are, Mike. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for this time. Really, really appreciate it. So blessings to you. As we go into the summer months. Yeah, you as well, man. This is great. I had a great time. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely, Mike. Well, hey, man, thank you so much. And hopefully we'll get to meet you in person sometime down the road. All right, as I'll go, I'll come home soon. Don't Yes, come back home, come back home. Well, thanks, Mike. Appreciate you, man. Thanks.