Growing Up Poor, Lessons Of Service, Empowering Men & More With Jethro Jones

*Ross * Hi everybody, thank you so much for tuning in to Bear Crawl with dads. For those of you listeners, this is a podcast that exists to encourage dads, no matter where you are in your walk as a dad, whether you're a new one or an empty nester. And obviously, I am kind of tricking the system a little bit and with my guests, I'm taking notes since I'm a new older dad. So this is a show and a guest that I've been very, very excited to have for a long time. And it's been a long time coming. Met him a year or so ago when he was in Houston. But I'd like to welcome and introduce our guest to Mr. Jethro Jones. Hey, Jethro. Hey, Ross, thanks so much for having me here. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Well, it is truly an honor, Jethro. For the audience, just to know that you, I think we're in Houston during a really cold, cold time in Houston for like, what, a week? We have cold weather and standing out at our school's chicken yard. And I don't think I was prepared jacket wise at all and try to have this engaging conversation

Jethro with you while I was like freezing to death. Yeah, that sounds about right. I don't think I was prepared either. Because it's Houston, Texas. Why would it be cold?

*Ross * I know. We haven't been like for like two weeks and then it goes away. It's horrible. And it's already like the last couple of days has been like 90, 90 plus and we're not even in the summer months. So. But Jethro, thank you so much for taking the time because you, I do want the audience just to get a little perspective of who you are. What do you do? Because I feel like you're one of those guys that somebody asks you like, hey, Jethro, what's going on? Or how's your day?

Jethro That's kind of a loaded question because I feel like you have tons of irons in the fire. Yeah, I do actually have a lot of irons in the fire. And depending on who you are, my answer to you will be different based on what you might be interested in hearing about that's actually going on. So I used to be a school principal. I now do consulting full time and I have a podcast network of which Bear Crawl with Dads is one of the members that I'm very proud to have on the on the network. And that podcast network is called Be Podcast Network. That's a Be Podcast Network dot com. We've got a lot of great shows. Twenty three right now. Twenty three. Yep. And here's here's the cool thing, Ross. You were one of the first people that I talked to about this podcast network and you were the first one that that we brought on without a show and that the year show started on the Be Podcast Network. So that is not a little thing that took a lot of faith for you to say, yeah, I'll I'll work with you and trust you to do things. And there are some things we still haven't finished following through on and hopefully we will soon. But you know, it's it's pretty awesome to have you.

*Ross * And congratulations on hitting 20 shows, I believe on the 20th, right? Well, I was going to say, well, thank you for those kind words, Jethro. And for just our conversation and me throwing kind of a dream out there of just kind of what I wanted to do, what was in my head and for you taking the risk and and letting me kind of run with it. So obviously I have you. I can't I can't thank you enough. And as we were talking before we hit record that and maybe you can help a little bit with the statistics, but I heard there's a really small percent of podcasters that actually make it to podcast episode 20. And you are 20. So I thought that was pretty cool.

Jethro Yeah, I think that's pretty awesome, too. And there there is a small number. Some people say that it's like as low as one percent. There's a website that I use to keep track of ranking of podcasts, ListenNotes.com. And you are in the top 10 percent on that one, which is pretty awesome, considering you only started this year. And so you're in the top 10 percent of.
Jethro Okay. So this podcast that I this website that I use to keep track of downloads is called Listen Notes and you are in the top 10% of all podcasts around the world, which is pretty amazing. You've got you just crossed a milestone in the network you just hit 1000 downloads total for this for this podcast and if you are one of the people who listens to this show on a regular basis, you need to go say something nice about Ross in the in Apple podcasts or in Spotify, wherever you listen, go leave a review. Those two are the big ones. So so go leave a review, especially an Apple podcast, because Ross is doing amazing stuff and nobody knows Ross, how much you care about other people getting something good out of this podcast, and that this isn't for you. You're not like doing this so that you can make more money or anything like that. You're doing it so you can be a better dad and you can help other people to be a better dad and I just want to commend you for that because you are a shining example of someone who puts others first who serves others first without any thought for reward for himself

*Ross * and I commend you for that and I thank you for being that kind of a man. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot. I just know, be to do dad. It's just like, what do I do? You know, and just going to those that have gone before me and just having these conversations and just to leverage a podcast that I just happened to hit record and get it out there to two people listening. Shout out to my mom and dad. That's okay. Right. And just getting to hear so many guests and hear stories. I am the product of my father. We just love to hear people's stories and wherever it may take us. Right. And so that's what I'm excited about tonight and you is to hear your story. I mean, I really don't know you. So I want to hear a little bit of who's the man behind Jethro and you mentioned that you were a principal for many years and obviously you are at a role where you're encouraging others as well. You're empowering others. You're giving other people an opportunity to give a voice, whatever area arena that is. So you're living a life of giving back, which is pretty cool. So Jethro, tell us, number one, where are you sitting right now?

Jethro Where are you in the country? Spokane, Washington.

*Ross * Okay. I've heard of it. So tell us if we can, again, the man behind Jethro and obviously since the show, you know, is kind of cater for dads. I mean, also we want mothers and moms to be listening in as well. It's for them as well, too. But tell us about your father, if you don't mind. What was that relationship like?

Jethro What did that look like? Well, you know, I just listened to your interview with Kyle Carnahan before I sat down to interview with you and he talked about how your kids are watching you and they're paying attention all the time and they're seeing, they're judging you and they're seeing what you're doing. And I absolutely saw what my dad was doing. And I want to tell you, my dad was not perfect, but I am sure that he was doing the best that he could with what he had. And he made a lot of mistakes and he did a lot of things wrong. But I am so grateful for my dad and so grateful for what he, what he taught me, not just by what he said, but by his example as well. And, and that means a lot to me. And he passed away in 2016 or 2017. I can never remember what year. And, and it was, it was really fascinating to me because we'd had some tumultuous times and and I was, I was sad that he, that he was gone. But at the same time, I was so grateful that he was in a better place and that he doesn't have the weaknesses and frailties that, that he had. I mean, personally, my belief is that we still have those and we have to grow out of them, but he now has the ability to grow out of them in a way that is a, that's pretty powerful. So I'm, I'm grateful for, for that.

*Ross * Well, thank you for sharing that. Was there, if you don't mind me asking, was there good closure that you had with your

Jethro father before his passing? Yeah, there was actually. And I'm really grateful for that also, because you don't, you don't have to have a bad relationship with your dad, but a lot of men do. And there's like this, this competition that is unnecessary and doesn't need to happen, but it does. And there's this budding of heads that is unnecessary and doesn't need to happen, but it does. And, you know, I'm just, I'm grateful that we were able to reconcile that and, and get back together and feel good about it so that when you passed away, I didn't feel like there

*Ross * was anything that I should have said or done before, before he passed away. Awesome. Yeah, well, I was just hoping to maybe even about listening, just kind of what that looks like, you know, closure or getting that with your father, you know, before they pass or saying the things that you want to say or didn't say and all that kind of good stuff. Also, to paint a little bit of a picture with your family, the upbringing, did you have siblings and then with your father, if you want to go like exactly what he did as a profession, but I'm just curious generationally, how did he show his love to you if you have siblings? Was it a quality time? Was it he provided what he pays a little bit more of a context there?

Jethro So I'm number five of seven and we, what I remember is we never had much money growing up and things always felt tight. And I remember being 12 and learning that we were poor and being shocked and not understanding and feeling really sad. Oh my gosh, we're poor. What does that mean?

*Ross * How did you know? How did you, what was it that you realized you were for?

Jethro So we were going to get a food order because my dad was out of work. And so we were going to get some, some, a food order from the church and going over someone's house. My mom and I, and I said, why are we going to the Greenwood's house? And my mom said, well, she's going to help me get a food order. And I said, why do we need a food order? And she said, cause we don't have any money to buy, to buy groceries this month. And I was like, what, we're poor? And I'm pretty sure my mom started crying at that point, because I think she was trying to protect us as moms do. And, and so, you know, that was my first indication that things were not going well. So my dad had, he was, he did something with computers and he was bouncing around from job to job a lot of the time. And so that meant we moved a lot. And so I went to five elementary schools and three different high schools. And, and so the thing that my dad taught me though, that I think is so important is pretty much every Saturday morning that I can remember, we were getting up early and going to somebody's house to help them move or going to, we lived in Southern California and going to the Orange Grove to, to pick oranges that, that our church owned and, you know, then give those away to, to people who needed it. Or we were doing something and my dad was always, always dragging us out of bed. And we were, we were always excited when we could get back to the house by 10 AM so that we could watch X-Men, which was the cartoon that was on in the morning. And, and if we did that, then it was a, it was a good Saturday.

*Ross * And I don't think we did that as often as I would have liked. Jethro, that's, that's what it tests so many though, like even with your, sounds like with your family struggles financially growing up. And I'm sure as a 12 year old, when you're in middle school, which is, like I've said on a lot of shows, it's the middle seat on the plane. Nobody wants it. You become really self-aware for that all to kind of come together, maybe to realize we're poor. I'm curious to, you know, what that, how that impacted you, but through all that your sounds like from what you're saying, your father still had the heart of giving and of missions of, of just that Saturday commitment, even in the midst of all your personal family struggles.

Jethro Yeah, for sure. That's amazing. What a testimony. That's definitely the case. And I'm, I'm very grateful for that because that's made it possible for me to feel like I can, I can step in and help others when I need to. And, and I'm grateful for that because I think that that's a really important thing is to, to be able to bless the lives of others by, by helping them out as well. So I'm grateful for that. The other thing about my dad that I think is essential to say is that, uh, my dad was an incredibly loving human being, always appropriate, never felt like I wasn't safe when I was with him and always felt like I was loved, loved deeply. And my dad, as far as I can remember, only ever said one negative thing to me. And ironically, it was around my podcast and I started the podcast in 2013. He was so alive and I was excited. My dad was a bit ahead of his time, had a radio show. If he were, uh, if his brain were more with it over the last 20 years, he would have definitely been all about podcasting and would have built a huge following because he was very good with words and good with talking and, um, and communicating ideas. And so he listened to my podcast and he said, Jethro, I tried listening to your podcast, but it was just so boring. And I couldn't, I couldn't continue. And that was the meanest thing my dad has ever said to me in my whole life.

Ross Isn't that crazy? Ouch. Of all the years, right? Middle school, high school dating. It was the podcast. Yep.

Jethro And actually that was, yeah. And that was the only thing that he, that I ever felt like he didn't, uh, he didn't think I was the best at it. Like my dad always made me feel like I was the best at anything that I tried or attempted, even though that was very much not true. He made me feel like I could do anything and filled me with such confidence and ability that, um, that I still feel like I can do that. I don't care what it is. And, and I credit that to my dad always pumping me up and making me feel like I could do it.

*Ross * And I just think that is so important. Well, and that's huge too, you know, being that you were number five, right? With seven children and to be able to, I'm assuming too, and that we don't have to go down this rabbit trail, but, but just with your other siblings, that they felt the same way. Um, and the fact that you is number five, felt this. That's pretty incredible. Uh, cause I would think number four, number six, number seven, number three kid would be somewhere in there, but you're kind of, you kind of fell in that kind of weird pecking order number, but, um, well, that's, that's quite a tribute to your dad and just be able to the fact that he, he lived that way and empowered you to, to have that is phenomenal. What was it though? And I want to get back a little bit to you said that he made you feel loved. You were known, you felt safe. Um, what was it though? That he did either with you or with your family, were there any sacred, um, you

Jethro know, rituals, family traditions that you guys did to, to curate that or thought to reinforce that? Well, you know, there's a story that my dad always told that his dad never told him that he loved him and he, that just tore him up inside. And so he vowed when he was a dad that he would always tell his kids that he loved them and he told us that story and told others that story probably a million times, I'm not even kidding. And so it was really, really ingrained into us that, that love is, is a powerful thing. And, and, and here's the thing that's so fascinating, just as a, as a side note, it is so easy for us to go to the opposite extreme of wherever our parents were on whatever thing they're doing. Right. And to go to the other side, like my dad, his dad never said he loved him. So my dad said it all the time, maybe way too much. I don't think it was way too much, but somebody might think it was definitely. I'm grateful for that, but it would be easy then for me to go to the other extreme and be like, no, my dad said too much. So I'm not going to say it that much, but this is like the power of breaking up generational habits that he, he took a stand and said, this is important enough to me that I'm going to talk about all the time and put it out there so that people understand it. And make sure that my kids know that they are loved and that they matter. And I really appreciate that. And I'm grateful to him for that because I tell my kids that I love them. Every day, multiple times per day. And my daughter now has gotten, uh, she has a phone now. She's a freshman in high school and she, uh, she texts me every day. I love you. Have a great day. And that's pretty awesome. And I think she inherited that from her grandpa, my dad.

*Ross * Wow. You don't hear that. I guess that's maybe not what you hear with this generation. And so for your daughter to be doing that is, is, uh, what an incredible young lady you have. Um, but again, the, the, the generational. Influence is your granddad has left through you, but I think that's, uh, that's an interesting point too, that I'm glad you brought that up. That the pendulum, like, you know, can swing you, you're overcompensating, you know, to maybe one generation to another, um, you know, and working in a school right now, you know, with, I've got, I've got several families. There's some deflection happening. There's some, um, again, maybe I don't know who's listening to this, but, um, love you all fourth grade families, but we just had a couple of, we had a, um, a fourth grade trip a couple of weeks ago and several of the kids, it was their first time to ever spend a night away from their home. Some didn't go on the trip because they had never spent one night away from home. And so I think there's a lot in that, but it's like, is that because of COVID to be, to be fair, or what does that say about the parents? You know, uh, what was the, but what was their childhood about, you know, are they overcompensating something in their children, like, um, you know, so.

Jethro Funny you bring that up because, uh, my, my kids are not allowed to spend the night at people's houses. Um, besides when, when we're there and very rarely do they spend the night at anybody's house besides just with us. And the reason is, is because as a, uh, as a principal, I saw a lot of bad things that happened because people spent the night at kids, spent the night at other people's houses, stupid things, abuse, all kinds of stuff. And, um, and so that's just a rule in my family that we, that we don't do that. And it's a way that I keep my kids safe and keep them protected from whatever could be going on out there. And I just want to make sure that they are taken care of. And, um, I've just seen and heard of too many bad things happening. And I don't know what we'd do if their fourth grade class went on a trip. You know, I, I personally would have, have a difficult time with that. I think it'd be great and probably a good experience, but I.

*Ross * That'd be a tough one for me. Well, and I'm glad you brought that up, Jethro, cause I've never heard that side of things and I, that's what I love about these conversations, cause I haven't heard that perspective before and you know, not just because you're my guest, but I think that's a very valid. And I think if a parent brought that to my, I mean, obviously we don't make kids go and we honor the family's wishes, but I think that's a fascinating point. And not that we have to go down that road, but, um, the fact that you were, you, you were aware of some things happening at other homes that are out of your control. Um, so I think that, yeah, that's a fascinating perspective. So thanks for sharing that and being a vulnerable.

Jethro So just to tell the audience, how many children do you have? I have four kids, girl, girl, boy, girl. The oldest is 17 and the youngest is 11. 11. Yes. Okay.

*Ross * Okay. And so with that, again, we don't have to harp on the, the spending of the night, but obviously when they turn 18 and whether they go to college or move out the house, that will be of course, right. The first time that they would spend the night away from home.

Jethro Is that kind of what, how it's set up? No, not, not set up like that. Like there are, you know, if there's a, like they go on to girls camp, the girls do the sun. He goes to, to camps as well in the summer. And they, they do those kinds of things. Uh, but we, we do talk a lot about that stuff when, when, when they do that because, uh, cause it's easy to get into trouble and do stupid things. But the thing is, is like, we've tried really hard to teach them to make good choices so that those kinds of things don't happen or that if they do, then they at least have a way to manage and deal with them that are not, uh, that is not too challenging.

*Ross * Well, that's good. I'm making notes. That's really, you know, even again, kind of one of the reasons I'm doing this show is to glean from you guys and to hear that. So, no, that's awesome to hear that. Thank you. Um, so, so with that too, as far as with the children, I mean, has there been any, I'm just wondering too, when it comes to, again, those middle school years and the, the peer pressure, um, you know, has there been any intention there, you know, like,

Jethro but you know, everybody's doing it. Yeah. Um, there has been, and there's been, and you know, I tell them bluntly, like, look, it's not happening, not because I don't trust you, or I don't trust that other kid or their parents or anything like that. The fact of the matter is, is that bad things can happen. And I've heard too many horror stories and I'm not prepared to let this go. I'm prepared to do this. And so,

*Ross * it's just a non-negotiable.

Jethro Yep. And so, so then, you know, when there is an opportunity or something does come up, then they can ask and we talk about it. But they know that by default it's not going to happen. And, and then when there are exceptions, then we can, we can talk about it. So for example, my, uh, my daughter's got a really good friend that lived across street from us in Alaska and we don't have kids spend the night at our house either. So I'm not just like, I'm not, I'm not being hypocritical here. It just, it doesn't happen. Right. But this friend from Alaska, um, she lived across street from us. The girl spent all the time together and, uh, her dad was like, Hey, can I send my daughter down to your house for Christmas after we moved down here to Washington? And we said, yeah, that would be fine. Here's the ways that we're going to keep her safe and make sure she's good. And, uh, is that okay? Do those things sound, those protections sound good to you? And he said, yep, that'll be fine. And. You know, he, he totally trusted us. And we trusted this young girl that she'd be safe and would be good in our house as well. And, and that worked and it was, it was fine. So that was an exception to the rule, but you know, we had to talk about that and make plans and we had to do it in a way that was a surprise for my daughter because, uh, the, her friend and her friend's dad wanted it to be a surprise. And so, you know, she saw my daughter saw that it was a big deal that this was happening. This is not normal and was grateful that we were able to make it happen because she really missed this friend. And we moved down here during COVID. So my daughter didn't have an opportunity to make another because we weren't going out and meeting anybody anywhere. So it was really, um, you know, it was good to have that happen and, and, and a good experience and everybody was safe and, and taken care of. And that's, that's what matters. And as a dad, like that's what sometimes you got to be a jerk and say, we're not going to do what everybody else is doing because I'm going to keep you safe.

*Ross * Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. Thank you for all that too. And I'm curious too, Jethro, go down this rabbit hole a little bit, because I think some of the past podcasts, one thing that's kind of come up with several dads is that line of communication with your children. You know, how do you create an environment where it's the children, your children feel safe, that they can kind of come to you or anything? Cause I'm learning. I want to know, you know, what does that look like for my son? You know, what does that look like for my, my stepdaughter who's 13, who I feel like she knows that we're, she can pretty much tell us anything. And that's, that's pretty special, you know, but, but, you know, maybe even with your father, did you feel that that you could? And then as a father, you know, with your children, your four, your four kids, tell me about that as far as those, those lines of communication, which

Jethro I feel like is so important. Yeah. I definitely could not tell my dad everything. And I certainly never felt like I could. Most of that was because I was afraid that I would one get in trouble and two be judged by him. And so, uh, that I think is, is really what it comes down to is, um, are, are you going to judge your kids and they can tell when you're judging them. And if you're going to judge them, then they're going to say, it's not worth it to talk about this. And I had some, some real problems when I was younger, I moved out of my house to live with my sister when I was 16, because I was struggling so much. Really? Yeah. And I, I could not talk to my parents about things that were going on. And I hope that my kids can. And I've, I've broken it down to, to two important things that I think have helped them. Number one, um, I talked to them about things that they need to know about before they're old enough to talk about it. So, you know, we, we started talking about respecting your body and pornography and things like that. When my kids were probably around eight, seven or eight years old, and we started that conversation early with them so that uncomfortable conversations were had. Early on. The second part, um, is that I do my best to explain why I'm making the decisions that I'm making and I don't talk down to them when I'm explaining it. I, I talk peer to peer to them when I'm explaining it. And so it's yes, I get mad. Sometimes we yell, sometimes we're sure. Sure. But I do my best to explain this is why we are doing things the way we're doing them, and this is why it matters. So, you know, like when we, when we do go spend the night as a family at grandma or grandpa's or aunt's or uncle's houses, we talk about what, what they should do. If somebody is doing something to make them feel uncomfortable. And we've had those conversations for years and, and, you know, I, I think we had the, the first time we had that conversation was when my kids were. Probably like the youngest one was like three or four. Wow. And, and we started talking about that because unfortunately I've seen things and heard things that, um, that I just don't ever want to happen to my kids. And so that protective part is, is really strong. So we talk early, we talk openly. Um, and then I explain things to them. In a, in a rational way. And sometimes I don't have a good reason for why I don't want them to do something. And I just say, I just don't feel good about it. And, and I don't think that you should do this. So I don't have a good reason why, but I need you to trust me and, and do it. And so far our kids have done a pretty good job of, of coming to us with things. And I don't expect them to tell me everything. And I'm okay with that.

Ross And right.

Jethro Um, and that's, that's all right. I hope they have someone they can go to. Um, and I hope they have someone they can talk to, uh, if it's not me, but I hope that they'll trust me enough to come to me.

*Ross * Yeah. Well, and I think that's important because I think obviously every family is different. Um, and whether, you know, we're walking around with our wounds from, you know, our past or growing up and we don't feel, you know, we don't, if we didn't feel safe, kind of divulging our junk, if it wasn't a safe environment, um, you know, how can we be that for our children? Um, you know, cause that is, that is, I feel like that's huge, you know, for your child to feel like, man, I'm going to, I can really tell my parent anything, you know, and, and be able to, and also to, I, you know, I guess to, right. It's, it's just the age of development. What's age appropriate, um, to go from that concrete mindset to a more abstract mindset where you can then talk to your children and more about like, well, what do you think you should do? What do you think about that versus a hard line? No. You know, um, I'll see for my two year old, you're running across the street. No, no brainer. Um, I'm trying to, I'm trying to keep you alive versus when I worked in middle school, I could start to have some of those conversations with some of my

Jethro seventh and eighth graders in a little bit. Right. Yep. And, and I would say you can have those conversations way earlier than you think. And then you can, you can explain to your two year old why they should not be running across the street in a rational, clear way, and they can understand it without you, like without scaring them to death, you know, like, yes, you could get hit by a car, but more importantly, you're developing a habit of not looking both ways. You need to look both ways. It's fine to run across the street, but you need to know what's coming. And so it's not just about don't run across the street. It's about understanding the context of the decisions that you're making and helping kids start processing that because they're not good at it and it takes practice and it takes brain development for that to happen, but you

*Ross * can help them be ready for it a little bit earlier. Gotcha. That's good. Uh, Jethro, I do want to get something else you said earlier. I want to come just jump back to that real quickly. Um, you're your dad with you, you felt loved, you felt known. There's nothing you could do wrong. So if I may, you, you receive words of affirmation you receive from your father. It sounds like maybe a blessing or you have what it takes Jethro. I see value in you, um, with your children specifically and, or when you were working as a principal, did you see, or what do you see? I think words of affirmation, words of blessing, you know, kids need that from their parents, they need to know, um, that we're seeing, we're valued in their eyes and if we don't receive that, we're kind of just, I feel like just filling that hole with all these things, um, that could be really destructive. Um, so give me your thoughts on that, on words of affirmation, whether you get it where you don't.

Jethro Have you seen that? Yeah. Uh, this is, this is one of those things that I think is just so vital to our life. Um, I personally believe that every single person on the earth is a child of God. And so in my work with my own kids, with the kids that I've worked with in schools, that is how I saw them. I also believe that kids have the potential to become like God in their characteristics and who they are and that we all should strive to be like Jesus Christ and that we can do that. And if we see people, how God sees them, then we see them with that potential of who they can become. And, and so I strove hard every single day to see and acknowledge kids for who they could become, not who they were in the moment. And as a parent, oh my goodness, that is so difficult and frustrating when your kids are doing things that you know, they know better than what they're still doing it, it's very frustrating because you feel like you've taught them better and they should know better and yet they're still kids and they still make mistakes and it's, um, and it's tough to watch, but it's, it's real. And, and so you still need to see them as what they can become, not as

*Ross * what they currently are. Well, so another interesting point that you brought up a little nugget for you as a, as a father, you know, and this is obviously for me too, when do you step in, when do you step back? Like, okay, I know this is going to get ugly. You know, I see where my kid or my student is going to make a really bad decision, but they're going to have to learn. I, right. When, when do you jump in? When do you not? Or have you jumped into, jumped in too soon?

Jethro Yeah, I definitely have many times jumped in too soon. And the reality is, is you just got to do the best you can with what you got. Okay. And, you know, sometimes you're going to, and sometimes you're not. I definitely err on the side of jumping in too late. And, uh, my wife is, is much more than jumping in too soon. So I think that I, I attempt to balance her out by letting my kids make bigger mistakes and, and be okay with that. Um, and you know, just, and then talking with them about it. And I believe that almost all of our problems can be solved with an empathetic love and conversation. Okay.

*Ross * Yeah. Yeah. Because I, you know, and I use this actually what I was talking to, uh, Kyle, that analogy, right. Of the, the caterpillar and the, the chrysalis stage and, you know, they need, it needs that struggle. It, the wings need to, it needs that tension for the wings to get stronger. So when they do release and turn into a butterfly, um, they survive, they're strong, they can fly, you know, those that have been helped, if you let them out a little too early, they die because their wings haven't been strengthened. You know, so I love that analogy, uh, just in life individually, but also to maybe as a parent of, um, you know, this is going to suck, but my kid is going to have to, or, you know, there's a big book that I was going through when I worked at a former school and I used to work at the Methodist Children Home. And there's a book called Love and Logic, if you've ever heard of that. Oh yeah. Right. And so it's kind of those logical consequences.

Ross Um, you know, and so that's something I was wondering if I should revisit that a little bit too. Yeah.

*Ross * You know, even in the, even in my school, you know, working with, as the Dean, um, and I remember one time before I get back to your, to your, to you as a father, but also to have one time I will have the honor of speaking at a graduation, um, an eighth for the, my former school for their eighth grade graduation. And so I, you know, I was like, it's not about me, you know, what pearls of wisdom can I give eighth graders? Cause you know, two minutes, they're like not even thinking about, you know, the, the ceremony, but we tricked the system and we had people scattered throughout the, the audience with little note cards and we surprised the kids and we had the, had the kids stand up one by one. And so we have former teachers, parents would stand up and they would, and when it was say is Jethro, Jethro's turn, Jethro would stand up. And so publicly we have people giving words of affirmation or their current teachers of what we see. Jethro, this is what we see in you. This is what we value in you. And to me, I mean, it just, I mean, I almost lost it tier wise because the power of having somebody just blessing you in public like that, um, was, was huge. And so just again, getting back to, to, to, you know, not necessarily that's what your father did publicly, um, but how you're shaping your kids too. And for fathers out there or parents out there, um, I don't know. Just something to think about, you know? Yeah. So, so Jethro, what, um, again, let's, let's focus zoom in on you a little bit in your role as a father of four. And again, maybe through your story, it can be a word of encouragement to me and to listeners out there, but what has been, again, this is a macro question,

Jethro but what has been your, your greatest challenge as a dad? Uh, definitely mastering myself. Hmm. Uh, that is for sure. Um, I, I see so many weaknesses and so many of my own mistakes, especially when I see that in my kids, that is, that is especially difficult. So, um, I, so there's, there's a scripture that I love that, that I want to share with you and it gives me inspiration to be a dad and it is, it goes like this. If all men had been and were and ever would be like in tomorrow night, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever. Yay. The devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men. And I think about that as it relates to being a dad and thinking, man, if I could be like that so that the very powers of hell would be shaken forever. Um, that would be incredible. And if I could find a way for the devil to not have power over the hearts of my children, that would be amazing. And that's, that's what I want to be as a father. That's what I want to do. Um, to, to help my kids so that they can withstand their weaknesses because they have them too. And so that they can be strong enough to, uh, to overcome that.

*Ross * Do you share that with them?

Jethro Like, do you, you know, I try to and read that scripture together and, and talk to some about it. But, um, but there's, you know, uh, are they hear me? I don't know.

Ross Well, you know, seeds are planted, right? Yeah.

*Ross * You know how they're, they're going to water and grow. I guess that's the prayer, right? You're making the investment now. What, what, aside to two, what do you do? Like, are there any traditions or rituals that you Jethro as a dad

Jethro do with four or with your children? Yeah. Um, so when, when the kids turn eight, they get baptized and they choose this. So that's not something that we, we say they're, they're not allowed to do it before they turn eight, but once they're eight, they're old enough to make that decision and then, um, and then when they're 12, they go on a 12 year old trip with me and then, uh, our first one hasn't done it yet, but when she graduates high school, then we want to go on a 12 year old trip with, or not told real trip on a senior trip with my wife, myself, and, and the graduating senior, um, and ideally that would be great if we could, uh, go. Uh, out of the country, that would be a lot of fun, but, uh, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll see where, where we're at when that time comes.

*Ross * So it is, so it is an intentional, uh, trip, but just with that one specific child. That's right. Yep. Okay. And is there any, again, I'm curious for my own selfish reasons. Um, is there any kind of, um, objective with that trip? Uh, do y'all read a book together? Do you have any specific conversations or is it just quality time?

Jethro Uh, it is quality time. I feel like those, those other conversations we need to have all throughout life. And so, um, you know, I know that there's there, there could be some other things tied in with it and we just haven't done that, but really it's about quality time. Going to a place that the kid wants to go to not to a place that I want to go to. Although I gotta say my, my youngest kid, she, she knocked it out of the park. She wants to go to a college football game and an NFL football game. And I'm like, yes, please.

*Ross * You are the best. I mean, I don't have favorites, but you might be kind of my favorite. Yeah. Can you put that on the, for the record, Jethro, this will be tapes.

Jethro Yep. No kidding. Yeah. Uh, if we are, if we are rating by what we do for a 12 year old trip, she is the winner that is, oh my gosh, she killed it.

*Ross * That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Um, good for her. Uh, I love that. I love that. And I love hearing you with my pa, my past, just with my guests, just, I love asking that question just to see what do they do, what do they don't do? And, and, um, cause I, I can't, I know people are gonna be tired of me. Hear me say this, but I still remember my vanilla cones from dairy queen with my granddad, you know, um, and my dad, you know, yes, he would, we would have date nights with my dad, you know, well, so yes, but, um, just something about that quality one-on-one time is just powerful, you know? Um, so that's neat. That's neat.

Jethro Um, I, I also, you know, what, as far as with that goes to, um, uh, you know, in your role, but what would you say, what would you tell Jethro if you could go back? What? Okay. Did I freeze again? Dang it. No, you're good. You're good. Okay. So, uh, rich Christiansen, he does this thing called legato family, and it is about having a mission and vision for your family, establishing values, and then doing things with your kids to get them to, to achieve certain things and go through these rituals and, and, uh, and experiences to help them really be. Uh, amazing. And so for example, with his kids, uh, they, they all built a million dollar business when they were in high school and then sold it and gave all the money to charity, and that was one of the things that he wanted to instill in his kids. One, that they could create something and two, that they could walk away from it and, and give it away. And I think that's amazing. They, uh, they go spend, um, time serving others, uh, when they're 18 and they give, they give away their life and the service of others, which is really powerful also, um, and then there's, there's a bunch of other things that they do. And, uh, and, uh, I read one of his books, uh, years ago and, uh, really liked it and had no idea that he was doing all this stuff at the same time and it's, it's

Ross really quite powerful, so legato family.com, L E G A D O family.com. Okay.

Jethro Say L A G L E G A D O family.com. Okay.

*Ross * And, okay. And you're referencing that just a, cause it's incredible, but also to something that you've kind of modeled.

Jethro Uh, I wish you wish. Yeah. So I put the, the link in, in the chat with you and me so that you could see what that looks like, but, um, Oh, I pasted the email, sorry about that. But legato family.com. No, I just learned about what he's doing with that. Uh, like last year or something or last month, I should say, uh, he was on a podcast and I just think it's very cool. So, uh, I wish that I had the foresight and planning that he did to put that all together, but I certainly did not. So, uh, it's one of those wishes that I have that I wish I could have gone back

*Ross * and done well. And okay. So, and I'm definitely gonna put that in the show notes for, um, obviously for our listeners to go check that out. I'm going to go check that out. I'm going to go see what that's all about. Uh, you know, see what we can do. That's awesome. So thank you for referencing that. Um, and so definitely listeners check that out. Um, cause I'm going to pull up that website after we chat. Um, but what would you, what would you go back and tell yourself, uh, as a new dad, what you don't now?

Jethro Oh, that's such a hard question. Yeah, I know.

*Ross * Um, sorry, that's okay.

Jethro But it's still early in Spokane. It's true. I think the thing that I would tell myself is, um, is stop worrying about it and just love your kids and be there for them. And that's all they want. That's all they need.

*Ross * So that, that's it. That's good. And, you know, too, I don't know what you're, if what you're feeling like now, Jethro, but, um, you know, every dad too, that I've gotten a visit with are just like Ross blink, you know, you're holding them, nursing them, whatever like that. And then boom, they're getting their driver's license, you know, it just goes by crazy fast, you know, and just try to really be present at the moment. You know? Um, so I think that's something I've been trying to do. Just be more mindful of that. Um, so good words. What, um, you know, I, cause I want to hear about too, not to rabbit trail too Jethro, but, but I, you know, tap it into, you're working with teachers, you're working with principals, people who are in, they are in the trenches. And not, I'm, I'm, we're not going to go down political thoughts and what's happening in the schools, but I guess I'm trying to say too, maybe, you know, if you want to go there a little bit, what you're seeing, what you're hearing and how that, if there's any kind of correlation with what's going back to the family, back to the home, you know, is our civilization at the brink because of the breakdown of the family unit. Um, but what, again, this is a big, big softball question, but what do you think are some of the biggest challenges facing dads today?

Jethro Yeah. Uh, I, I, yes, the, the destruction of the family, I think is definitely a problem and definitely something that has been going on for a long time. And there are sinister forces at play in my belief that are trying to accelerate that timetable. And, uh, I am not kidding when I say this, that I have been in meetings with school employees who have said it would be better if we were just a boarding school and we had the kids with us all the time and that, that type of a mentality of an approach is corrosive and evil in my mind. So I have a different stance. I believe the education is the responsibility of the parents and that we, as the state or the private school or whatever, we step into help where parents requests our help, but it's still their responsibility. And our role is only to assist. It is never to take it over. It is never for us to be the primary focus. And, and so that's why the thing that I'm, that I'm starting now is this thing to help men be like Moroni in that scripture that I read. Um, and so this is like a, a coaching thing for, uh, for men, whether they're, they've got kids or married or not, doesn't matter, but if, if all men could be like Moroni, then we'd the gates of hell be shut and Satan wouldn't have control over the hearts of the children of men. And I believe that I think that that's incredibly powerful and I want to help men be able to do that. And so, uh, my coaching program in that arena is called men like Moroni, menlikemoroni.com. And I really think that the way that we help cure the ills that are happening in society is by making ourselves better and starting there, because we're not going to, we're not going to change everybody's mind. We're not going to change what everybody's doing, but we can improve ourselves and that's where we need to focus.

*Ross * So you're okay. Well, thank you for that. And thank you for obviously sharing, sharing that that will be in the show notes as well. And so this, you've started this as a specific ministry, if you will, for men, for, for dads, is that right?

Jethro Yep. Uh, not even for dads, for men specifically because… For men.

*Ross * Okay. And is the, is the, what's, what's your in, is it, you're trying to empower men to what's the…

Jethro To live up to their potential really. That's, that's the thing. Um, okay. I don't, I don't think that this Moroni character was, was any better than anybody else, except that he understood what his role was and he knew how to get there and how to do what he was put on this earth to do. I think that every single man, woman and child has a purpose here. And our goal in life is to figure out what that purpose is and live up to our potential. And, and that's really what I want to help people do. So there are all kinds of things that prevent us from getting there. And, uh, and I've been very blessed in my life to have had a lot of great, uh, mentors who have helped me figure things out and help me understand and explain things in a different way. And, uh, and I mentioned to you before that my wife thinks that I have this, this ability to help. And I feel, uh, like the only way that I can really help is if I, myself call upon the powers of God to help me do it, because I don't think that I have the power to do it on my own and that's not false humility. That's not me. Like pretending like I'm all pious. Like, I really feel like this is, this is too much for me and I don't feel qualified to do it and yet I feel a call to do it.

*Ross * And the fact that you're doing it right. As opposed to just nod or thinking about it or paralysis of analysis that you're actually moving forward with it is, it's huge. But I think what you said earlier too, so indicting, um, and I don't want to, I don't want to misquote what you said, but that maybe teachers were saying that we, if we could just be a boarding school and keep the kids here is, did I hear you correctly in that? Yeah. Basically saying we could do a better job than their own parents. Right. And I was going to say that's such an indictment, uh, on the families that they're seeing or the state of families in general, maybe if that's fair to say.

Jethro Um, yeah, I would take it a little bit differently. It is, it is an arrogance and a, uh, entitlement that is wholly inappropriate. And the, the thing is, is that we, when we have a child, we have a responsibility to care for, nurture, love, and support that child. Yes. Some parents don't do a good job of that. Yes. Some parents fail at that. And sometimes there are serious situations where it is better for the child to be taken away from the parents, but that is by far the minority and not the majority and, and this off the cuff, no big deal, kind of a, a response from, from educators, I think is just, is an indictment of them and where we have put our emphasis in the wrong place, that we really should be supporting and helping families do a better job and have the support and resources they need to raise their kids effectively, but for them to do it and to, to help them when they're struggling with it, because it's not easy.

*Ross * Well, no, that isn't interesting. Take two, because it's, um, I think even, I don't, I'm not sure if this is kind of fair to, to say, but I think so much of what I'm seeing, obviously working in a school, um, so much of what we see in the hallways or in the classroom with behavior to some degree is all just systemic of what's happening in the, in the, in, at home. And so we're somewhat dealing with the aftermath or picking up the pieces of, of, of generally home life. Right. Um, and even if I can go to the church side of things, there's almost families are just, there's a mindset of you teach them about scripture church, you teach them about this. Well, what are you doing as a, what are you doing as a family? You know, really the family should be taking baths on and you're getting lazy and you're just putting all this onto the, to the church, to raise the child, to raise the family as opposed to maybe the father, maybe the husband and the wife together to, Hey, we, as a family, here's what we believe. Here's why let's do studies. Let's blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And we're going to go to our, our community of faith for fellowship to be around like-minded people to support each other.

Jethro Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that is, that is a problem with the, um, with our society is that we're moving in that direction. And I don't think that's good for us. And yet that's what we're doing. And it's, it's unfortunate because it doesn't have to be that way. And, um, you know, we, we really should be empowering and supporting parents to, to do that work and not, not letting them push it off on us, but we've done so much to make it easier for them to push it off on us that we're, um, that we're in a, we're in a bad place with them with, with putting that in already.

*Ross * Well, and with the work, maybe it sounds like you were doing with men like Barone and, um, and obviously in all the other endeavors that you're doing, obviously it's not just for fathers, but it's, it's, it's how can you be the best that you can be, know who you are. Um, you know, so you can really be an agent, agent of change to make an impact, right. And to step up and to have a voice, to fight for justice, um, no matter where you are, um, but oftentimes I think, I don't know if men are just becoming more passive or, or not wanting to offend. Um, right. But I think for some of those, we're drawn to people who are, have a conviction and who are, and this is who I am. This is where I'm going to put a line in the sand. I'm all in, you know, whether you agree, whether you agree or not, there's something really enticing or.

Jethro It, uh, it's so true Ross. And, and the reality is, is that it's the, the power of entropy is real, that if we don't have to work, it's easier to not work. And so we're going to go towards that and, and being a good man, being a good dad takes work and it's not, it's not a walk in the park. And so it's easy to say, eh, I don't want to do it. It's easy to say, I'll let somebody else take care of this. Uh, but part of being a man is taking care of what you need to be taken care of and staying focused on it and not giving up and not, um, quitting when it's

*Ross * easy. Yeah. And then, you know, Jethro, and that's like, but how, you know, how do you, and again, this is going to be a whole nother hour conversation too. I get that. And, um, but at least just to breach that conversation of, of how do you stop that, that trajectory with this younger generation where maybe boys are just kind of just feeling, I don't have a voice. I, I, you know, uh, I don't know. I just, boys I think are just, uh, just not maybe encouraged or supported or just feeling the weight on their shoulders. So then if they don't know how to curate something or how do you trick the system? How do you install grit? How do you install the fight through something and not give up at a young age if they're coming from not great homes?

Jethro You know, I, I don't know, you know, I don't know if that's a power mentorship or. Yes, it absolutely is. Not coming from a great home cannot be an excuse for why you're not amazing because you have the ability to be amazing. Um, another great person that you should interview for this podcast is Javon McCormick, who, uh, is, uh, a Texan also, and he's the CEO of scribe media and they help people write books. And he was the, uh, son of a prostitute and a pimp and was sexually and physically and verbally abused his whole childhood and was treated poorly at every turn and figured out a way to make him successful and a good human being despite the flaws that he still has. And we have to continue that trajectory, continue that kind of a thing. And we have to help people see their potential no matter who they are, no matter where they came from or what their history was. And we can't use those things as an excuse for why they're not successful. We have to help them see that they can be successful and they can define what success looks like. It doesn't have to be successful in the way we say it is, but it has, but it can be in a way that is successful to them in a way that really, that really matters to them personally.

*Ross * What a, I'm so glad you brought that up because I think too, again, not only, you know, as you say on the beginning of the show, but you know, I'm leveraging this podcast for personal reasons, um, as a new father, but also too is to encourage anybody out there. And I think for any dads that or men, I've made a mistake or I come from a horrible situation, you know, I don't matter, or I haven't talked to my child in years or, you know, it's just, how can you use your scars to heal others or to bless others? Um, you know, that's not too late. It's not too late. Um, you know, one of my, one of my guests that I had, I spoke to, um, he's in Richmond, Virginia, um, coach Hicks. Um, when I was talking to him before we even recorded on the show, um, he's like, man, do you mind if I pray for you? I was like, yeah, absolutely. And then I said, do you mind if I pray for you? He was like, sure. And then I was praying for him. I was like, you know, may, may your scars bring healing to others, right? Because I used to have panic attacks. And so when I talked to somebody who's had panic attacks, there's something healing about now I know what they're, they know what I'm going through. You know? Um, and he said, Ross, you have no idea when you were praying that he goes, I've got it and you know, I've never seen each other face to face, but I've got a big scar on my face and he goes, my wife always said that that is part of your story. You need to, you know, don't be ashamed in front of speaking to people because that's your story, right? And so he overcame that. And so it's his invitation to people to say, this is my story, this scar, you know, and to build that bridge to others, empathy to connect, right? Yep. So just like the gentleman that you said, you know, and I just, we're all walking

Jethro wounded, you know, but how can we use our, our wounds to bless and encourage others too, you know? Yeah. Cause cause we have to, and none of us is perfect.

*Ross * So for us to pretend or think that we are just, it's just not, it's not real. What would you tell, um, as we kind of started to wrap up a little bit, Jethro, what for, for maybe in your own life too, but for others out there, um, you know, I think more and more, we hear just stats and stats and articles and you know, how, you know, we're, we're more lonelier than we ever have been, you know, even with technology, uh, people are just getting more, are feeling more isolated, you know? Um, and so, but I think too, for men, maybe especially older men to find community, to find bros, you know, that's hard. That's hard to, to be the first person to initiate, Hey, do you want to go fishing or, you know, but how do you. Thoughts about that as far as having other guys in your life? To bounce things off of, to not be isolationist. Um, you know, what have you noticed in maybe in your own life or in observing

Jethro others? Yeah, for sure. I, I've definitely seen that men who have healthy relationships with other men are better husbands and better fathers and better than themselves. Men that have toxic relationships with other men that are all about, uh, unhealthy competition and, uh, and proven that one is better than the other. Uh, those, those relationships do not really help. And, you know, I've worked in education, I've worked in sales, I've worked in, uh, door to door sales too. And, and the people, the people that I want, the men that I want to spend time with are the ones who are, who are good, who helped me be better and push me to be better, uh, without, without making it about me versus them, about making me better myself. And, and those are little, little things, but really important things as well.

*Ross * Hmm. That's good. No, that, that's, that's awesome. Um, yeah, I, I had a, I'm hoping to snack him as a guest. He keeps on teasing me that he's going to sign up. Um, but a good buddy of mine who we actually lived together for some time, uh, in Waco and what I value, I will never, I'll always be grateful for him or just being really real with me with his struggles. And, but it was really from a place of, Hey Ross, I trust you. Um, and I know I'm not going to be judged. So he would just throw things at me. And I wasn't used to guys being that open. And in, in, in real, um, and the fact that I was kind of humbled like me, like, but he just really shared his junk. But because he did that, it allowed me to kind of loosen the grip, if you will, on, on some of my, and not just walk around just peeking everything out that like I'm struggling with, but it just, it broke the walls down to some degree with me. Um, and I don't have to put up this, you know, coming from a very, I was blessed to have a solid family, um, very faithful to our, to in our Christian walk. Um, so I, but I had to put on a certain facade. I felt like too, right. Um, but to, to be vulnerable with him, to say, I don't have it all together and I'm struggling with this too. And there was beauty and freedom in that. Yeah. That too is actually closer. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um, so Jethro, just as we kind of come to a close, why, you know, if there's anything that I haven't asked, I always ask my guests, um, you know, what is it that, uh, that is there something that you wish that I would have asked or something that, uh, through our conversation that is stirring in you, that you would

Jethro want to share, you know, to the listeners. No, I think you did a great job. I am, I'm so proud of you for what you're doing on this podcast. And I just think that you're, you're doing God's work and I'm grateful to know you and be associated with you and be able to, to have a small part in, in what you're doing, because it really is, uh, it is amazing and I commend you for it and for your love and generosity with how you do this, it really is, uh, just inspiring because, uh, you could have ulterior motives and really, you know, you're all about getting better yourself and helping other people get better too. And, uh, you know, people, people may not see that just by listening, but I definitely see it by interacting with you and hearing the things that you're saying. So God bless you for that.

*Ross * Well, thank you, Jethro. And again, that, that does mean a lot and it's, it's, um, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's fun, um, again, to, to hear people's stories and just, I just love hearing stories, man. I mean, I hate to keep on beating that down, but just to hear where people are coming from and their thoughts and what has shaped them and what molds them. And, um, and obviously, like I said, at the beginning of the show with you and education, um, you know, something was, a seed was planted early with you to, to choose that, you know, and what was it in your family or what was it? Was there somebody, a teacher that encouraged you or spoke into you, you know, and I think, I think we need to share that, you know, and, and, and share that. I think that the people need to hear. Yeah, just hear stories. So hopefully this, this, this podcast is that, you know, and just to hear from people's hearts, men's hearts, you know, um, so I, I appreciate that, but, but you're doing great things, Jethro. And obviously I think I know you're, you're number one calling in ministry and love is your, is with your wife and your kids, number one. And so thank you for that. Um, and then again, thank you for how you're pouring into just so many people. Um, every day, uh, and I know you are working late and hard all the time. So, you know, listeners, we're going to have all of Jethro's, um, you know, social media and websites and all that stuff into the, into the show notes to find out more about him and all the things that he's doing, all the podcasts that he's doing. Um, so please, please check that out. Um, and give them a shout out. Um, so Jethro, I just can't wait to, um, get to share a meal with you sometime in person, one of these days, um, whether it's up in the great state of Washington or if you're ever back down here in the hot, humid Houston. Yeah.

Jethro So if I am, you'll be one that I'm calling. So let's just, let's plan on that happening.

*Ross * Absolutely, man. Well, Jethro, it's surely has been an honor. Um, and thank you. And just, um, I can't think of again for my, my 20th guest, Jethro Jones. And as I, as I go off, uh, tomorrow, uh, and spend four days with fifth graders in the Hill country at, uh, Camp Eagle. So blessings for first. Yeah. Good luck. Hopefully we'll have a conversation after this.

Ross Yeah.

*Ross * Um, well, anyway, Jethro, thank you. Um, have a great evening and thanks for your time again. Thank you. My pleasure. All right, man. Bye bye.

Ross Bye. And stop recording. There we go.